Flyers during load dev

[MartyK2500]

BCBRAD
Although not impossible, but after reading this thread I am considering the scope as a possibility.
Vortex Razor gen 2. 4-27x56
I got increadible results using this scope for the last 3000 rounds, and to me suddenly going bad as I switch it rifles is an odd possibility.

Prairielover
This must be my 8th Savage to put my hands on.
Owned 4, but I have a sideline where I mount scopes and zero rifles for free for hunters in my friends circles, while strongly suggesting that a CSSA membership would make me happy.
That is before 01/05/20, as now a mandatory proof of membership required for me to install a scope!

Anyways all this to say that Savages I’ve zero’d all hit way above their price point.
A 700$ Savage can put a 1200$ Browning to shame.

Not surprised about the rough bores, as I always clean them before the first shoot and go into a shoot/clean 1-2-3-4-5 routine, often found metal shavings when cleaning new in box.


Trevor 60, will do.
Don’t have a way to slug the bore though.
Everything is loaded and taking time off work tomorrow, we’ll see if going brakeless solves a thing or not!
If not I’ll bench it and shoot my 6.5x47 Lapua for a while and enjoy it’s fully tuned/accurate state.

If ever Petawawa season suddenly wakes from Covid,
I’ll drop my HS precision in my ACC chassis and go about it that way.

 

[Shooter1971]

I've seen a bore open up when cutting for a brake if cuts were taken too big on the lathe. Found it using a range rod with a tight bushing from the muzzle end. Dead stop right where the brake ended

 

[Trevor60]

Trevor 60, will do.
Don’t have a way to slug the bore though.
Everything is loaded and taking time off work tomorrow, we’ll see if going brakeless solves a thing or not!
If not I’ll bench it and shoot my 6.5x47 Lapua for a while and enjoy it’s fully tuned/accurate state.

If ever Petawawa season suddenly wakes from Covid,
I’ll drop my HS precision in my ACC chassis and go about it that way.

No worries
maybe to save you sanity you could try the .308 scope on the 6.5 first eliminate the potential scope issue first thing. and get to enjoy your sessions before the frustration starts.
There is a Gunsmith in QC Ralph Colegan(sp) he builds high end rifles he might be able to Slug the barrel if you want to go that far?
As a factory gun i would think if this weekends test doesn't work out...return it... if you have the ability; no sense pissisng around with a factory rifle that has 1mil plus siblings out here.

Bulldog284... good to see you posting hope you are well and staying safe.

Trevor

P.S.

And for some completely out of the box thinking change the bullet. both you and Honda are shooting Sierra's. I have head stories and seen measured some bullets from Sierra that were undersized (skinny). Most notable in their 7mm 184 line but it could have spread to other calibers.

 

[BCBRAD]

BCBRAD
Although not impossible, but after reading this thread I am considering the scope as a possibility.
Vortex Razor gen 2. 4-27x56
I got increadible results using this scope for the last 3000 rounds, and to me suddenly going bad as I switch it rifles is an odd possibility.

Prairielover
This must be my 8th Savage to put my hands on.
Owned 4, but I have a sideline where I mount scopes and zero rifles for free for hunters in my friends circles, while strongly suggesting that a CSSA membership would make me happy.
That is before 01/05/20, as now a mandatory proof of membership required for me to install a scope!

Anyways all this to say that Savages I’ve zero’d all hit way above their price point.
A 700$ Savage can put a 1200$ Browning to shame.

Not surprised about the rough bores, as I always clean them before the first shoot and go into a shoot/clean 1-2-3-4-5 routine, often found metal shavings when cleaning new in box.


Trevor 60, will do.
Don’t have a way to slug the bore though.
Everything is loaded and taking time off work tomorrow, we’ll see if going brakeless solves a thing or not!
If not I’ll bench it and shoot my 6.5x47 Lapua for a while and enjoy it’s fully tuned/accurate state.

If ever Petawawa season suddenly wakes from Covid,
I’ll drop my HS precision in my ACC chassis and go about it that way.

I had a Vortex 2.5x10x44 PST, after 3000 or so rounds it seemed not to hold zero, sent it in for inspection/repair, a few weeks later it came back and was fine. This scope was on several different rifles but spent most of its time on a braked 223.

 

[iron cat]

Vortex scopes are having a real run of substandard issues , we had another at the club go sour yesterday .
And yes , a scope can and will " go bad" in between shooting sessions or changing it from one rifle to another, I have personal experience with that!
Cat

 

[HondaVTEC]

I just tried factory loaded FGMM 185 Berger Juggernauts with the same result . Typically , 3 good and tight followed be two fliers ( either grouped together or separated ) . It's not the scope as I swapped scopes with my other rifle and the suspect scope shot brilliantly on the other rifle . So , I am running out of options , fast . Grasping at straws here , but , I wonder if this chassis rifle has some sort of issue with my cheap bunny eared rear bag ? So , next time out I'll try it prone , off the bipod without the bunny eared rear bag and with just a standard sand bag . Like I said , I'm grasping . I've never had a rifle shoot this poorly and inconsistently with really good ammo .

As a side note , I've also tried 175gr Lapua Scenar L and Hornady 178 BTHP Match bullets with the same result . Dog poo .

 

[MartyK2500]

Back from the range with bad news...

Shot without muzzle brake, exactly same results.
Although I manage a 3/4 moa group @200M this time.
GMMs we're 3/4 moa at 100M 3 shot group during sight in.
In big, brake didn't change a thing.

So then I whipped my old school Savage 10 HS precision out, and put the Vortex Razor gen 2 on it.
Right off the bat with GMMs I got a sub 1/3 moa 5 shot group.
And that's with a 2 3/4lbs trigger vs the 1.5lbs on my 110 Elite, I regularly target shoot with a glock so I can handle heavy triggers!

Getting this Savage 110 Elite precision tuned is not on my check list anymore, project aborted.
I will salvage it, as I love the MDT ACC and I invested a sum in ARCA accessories and ACC balancing stock weights.
And in 2 weeks I am camping at my friends acreage for a few days where he has 1000yds to play with but no capable rifle, I need a cool 308 to loan him while I play with my 6.5

Short term
Remove stock, 3-15 NF scope and barrel off my HS precision Savage action,
And install my old 26'' M40 barrel, insite arms brake, Vortex razor gen 2, and MDT ACC chassis.
Doing all this tonight and will go out once or twice for a mini load dev/sight in, I know what that barrel likes anyways.

Mid term
Either buy a new IBI large shank barrel (MTU fluted would be wicked!) and get that 110 Elite on track or try to exchange it with Savage once the season passes.
Simply don't want to be out of a competitive platform for the season, as I'm hoping that Petawawa kicks starts again (they won't allow my 6.5 thus me needing a competitive .308).
Tempted to keep the action and rebarrel, as it's the first Savage I own to fly brass this far never seen that from them! Also my first one of many not to shoot well out of the box... the irony!

Also not in the mood for trying different recipies, and I'm sitting 1500x 175 SMKs and 24lbs of Varget.
Anyways, when a rifle can't shoot GMMs or SMKs+Varget you know somethings up...

This will pretty much be my last update as I'm moving on.

I just tried factory loaded FGMM 185 Berger Juggernauts with the same result . Typically , 3 good and tight followed be two fliers ( either grouped together or separated ) . It's not the scope as I swapped scopes with my other rifle and the suspect scope shot brilliantly on the other rifle . So , I am running out of options , fast . Grasping at straws here , but , I wonder if this chassis rifle has some sort of issue with my cheap bunny eared rear bag ? So , next time out I'll try it prone , off the bipod without the bunny eared rear bag and with just a standard sand bag . Like I said , I'm grasping . I've never had a rifle shoot this poorly and inconsistently with really good ammo .

As a side note , I've also tried 175gr Lapua Scenar L and Hornady 178 BTHP Match bullets with the same result . Dog poo .

If ever you should feel like writing Savage an E-mail please keep me posted via PM, we'll send them within a few hours difference, and know if their ####ting us if they say they never seen this before!

 

[Trevor60]

thank you both for the update

sorry it didn't work out.

It would seem a call to your retailer or Savage is in order. Ideally a conference call with the two of you to Savage. So you can share info with Savage. Maybe it is a un"known" problem and they are willing to make it right.

Trevor

 

[BCBRAD]

Take a look at this.

https://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/savage-action-screw-torque-tuning/

 

[HondaVTEC]

I tried different torque settings as it's been very effective on my Savage LRPV .223 . Zero improvement . I am not wasting any more ammo on this rifle . I'll call Savage on Monday morning and have a chat with them . I suspect that I'll have to re barrel . This is exactly what I did not want to have to do . Pretty disappointing .

 

[MartyK2500]

Let me know if ever Savage would take in barrelled action only in exchange.
As I’m swapping barrels in my old Savage action, I’ll at least use the chassis in upcoming events.
Kind of don’t feel like doing them with my M24 fiberglass style as I got a bunch of ARCA stuff to test.

Operation FrankenSavage is about to start!

 

[HondaVTEC]

So , just thought I'd share my response from Savage . I called them this morning and explained my disappointing results and testing parameters with Varget and the 175 SMK bullet ( and several other brands of 175's for that matter ). The Customer Service person at Savage said that 100% of the development and testing of the Elite Precision in .308 at the factory was done using the 168 Hornady Match bullet . Savage said that this is what the rifle was designed for and that they weren't really surprised that the 175 SMK did not work well . ( ??? ) I brought up the fact that the rifle has a 10 twist which is actually a bit fast even for 175's . No matter , it was designed for the Hornady 168's . They said that the "acceptable" accuracy for this rifle is 1 moa at 100 yards only . Period . Not sure how many shooters that are serious about competing in PRS will use the 168 Hornady bullet ??? So , there you have it . $2500 for a purpose built target rifle and 1 moa is acceptable ?? I don't think so .

 

[Shooter1971]

I normally shoot open but do shoot 168 eld-m in club matches. I think they are actually pretty popular for PRS tac division. Check ballistic calc might be they dont give up much on a 178 grain. I'd not expect more then an moa guarantee on a factory pipe from savage.
For the money id seriously consider a custom bbld savage action and buy your own acc stock.

So , just thought I'd share my response from Savage . I called them this morning and explained my disappointing results and testing parameters with Varget and the 175 SMK bullet ( and several other brands of 175's for that matter ). The Customer Service person at Savage said that 100% of the development and testing of the Elite Precision in .308 at the factory was done using the 168 Hornady Match bullet . Savage said that this is what the rifle was designed for and that they weren't really surprised that the 175 SMK did not work well . ( ??? ) I brought up the fact that the rifle has a 10 twist which is actually a bit fast even for 175's . No matter , it was designed for the Hornady 168's . They said that the "acceptable" accuracy for this rifle is 1 moa at 100 yards only . Period . Not sure how many shooters that are serious about competing in PRS will use the 168 Hornady bullet ??? So , there you have it . $2500 for a purpose built target rifle and 1 moa is acceptable ?? I don't think so .

 

[MartyK2500]

I normally shoot open but do shoot 168 eld-m in club matches. I think they are actually pretty popular for PRS tac division. Check ballistic calc might be they dont give up much on a 178 grain. I'd not expect more then an moa guarantee on a factory pipe from savage.
For the money id seriously consider a custom bbld savage action and buy your own acc stock.

Here's my grain of salt on the subject.

I find the reply from savage ####ty at best.
You don't advertize a rifle to be ''the'' tack driver of their lineup and only guarantee 1 moa.
Heck I was getting impatient with my 5/8 moa good thing I didn't contact them!

Purchased the Savage 110 Elite for 1900$.
Sold the barrel and brake for 290$.
The MDT ACC is 1100$
The vertical grip is 50$
The 10 round metal mag is 70$

So when I break this down, and if looking at the glass half full, I paid 390$ for the action, and also got a custom engraved ACC stock which also has no bottom sear tab for bolt release, making it prettier.
Also no oval action screw hole with an oval washer, straight up designed for my action.

And being honest, I would of seriously paid up to 750$ for that action alone.
From all the savage rifles I have handled, this one stands out from the crowd, especially it's strong ejection.

At this point I'm not mad or disappointed,
Ordered a 26'' M40 profile 6.5x47L from Jerry @ Mystic, and moving on to better times!

Yep, so my 2x ARCA railed rifles will be in 6.5 afterall, seems like the .308 will only be shot from an HS precision stock, no big deal!

 

[Gentle Ben]

I had a similar situation with a muzzle break. There was no copper fouling to indicate the problem but the occasional bullet was sent off course. I had the gunsmith take a few thou off the ID and that did the trick. Sounds like you have a real tack driver there and took the time to eliminate the obvious issues, gook luck hope you find your flyer.

 

[Shooter1971]

I thought they were 2500$...at 1900 that makes more sense

 

[HondaVTEC]

I am not a competitive shooter anymore as I simply don't have the time . However , I really like the rifle and for the price , I hoped that it would have shot better with little to no effort in tuning . I've been lucky as most of the "precision" rifles that I've bought , have been that easy . So , it's now turned into a bit of a challenge to get it where I want it to be . Maybe I'll get it there , maybe I won't . Worst case , I'll re barrel it . In the meantime , I'll try different bullets and powders and see what happens . I don't really care what bullet it likes . If it works , it works . A 10" twist shooting 168's seems strange to me though .

 

[MartyK2500]

I am not a competitive shooter anymore as I simply don't have the time . However , I really like the rifle and for the price , I hoped that it would have shot better with little to no effort in tuning . I've been lucky as most of the "precision" rifles that I've bought , have been that easy . So , it's now turned into a bit of a challenge to get it where I want it to be . Maybe I'll get it there , maybe I won't . Worst case , I'll re barrel it . In the meantime , I'll try different bullets and powders and see what happens . I don't really care what bullet it likes . If it works , it works . A 10" twist shooting 168's seems strange to me though .

Hint, if you rebarrel the rifle it will look much prettier and gain some weight!
HS action with old IBI 308 barrel btw, while waiting on new one



Gave it a few steel pucks while at it, balances 1.5’’ in front of barricade rest, feels solid.
In reality it balances right at the center of external pucks.

 

[HondaVTEC]

If / when I re barrel it , I will definitely go with a heavier contour . I miss my old M24 with the Mike Rock cut rifled barrel . That rifle blew me away the first time I shot it . Mid .300's off a bipod with factory FGMM ammo . Handloads with the 185 VLD Berger were killer at 800 yards . Someday , I'll get back to that performance level again . It just will take a bit more time it seems . Oh well , it is what it is .

 

[MartyK2500]

You’re only 3 figures away from a rebarrel that gives top performance !