Folding stock firearms?

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Greenwolf

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Ok serious question here as I consider my options and browse prices prior to getting my PAL: Are weapons with folding stocks legal here in Canada?

Now I've done a couple of searches and got the general impression "yes" but have yet to get a definitive answer. Same with Google search. I ask because I have a few weapons in mind, notably a Ruger 10/22 or a Mini-14 and I've noticed quite a few drop-in kits that include folding stocks for both rifles. Any thoughts on this?

Also, been having trouble actually finding a Mini-14 in Canada. I've thought about an M1A (specifically the Norinco copy, as I gather it's not bad for the relative price) but I'd much rather have a .223 to start, as that is the round I am more accustomed to. Is there a reason for this or does my Google-fu just suck?

Many thanks for your help! :)
 
i've got folders on 3 of my guns- a 10/22, a winchester defender,( which started off life as pistol grip only) and an m14- every one of them did NOT have a long enough stock to be comfortable( read i had to add material to the butt to get proper length to suit me- and i'm 5'8'' with a standard arm) and the "heavies " need something between your shoulder and the buttplate( and it IS a plate in 2 0f the 3 cases) to absorb the recoil- the only one that's half-way useful is the 10/22- then there's the SPEED of deployment- you have to push down on the button, and then swing the stock into place- the m14 is the worst one of the bunch beacuse it folds in two places- push the button, swing the stock into place, and THEN LOCK THE LOWER BRACE- unless space is at a PREMIUM, get a CONVENTIONAL stock- and i 've got an uzi as well, which has the best folding stock i've ever seen- but that folds UNDER, not to the side, and being a 9 pound gun in 9mm, there is NO recoil- and yes, folders are legal in canada provided you adhere to the overall length rule- as to their usefullness, that's debateable- as to the mini- they are around, but the accuracy is TERRIBLE - like minute of barn door-better off saving your money and getting something else-btw, the norinco m305( which is what you're referring to ) is NOT a clone of the m1a, it's a clone of the m14- as to the cartridge, the cdn army and others saw no problem starting off recruits with the 308( fn) and it;s a darned sight MORE useful than the 223-i've got 1 223( ar) in my closet and 6 308s- 4 of which are on the m14 platform- but i don't have varmints around here
 
Thanks for the info... didn't know Mini-14s had a rep for bad accuracy. As for the round size: I may be biased but I really liked the feel of the C7 in 5.56, I've only ever fired a 7.62 twice, and once was belt-fed (which is unlikely to happen again anytime soon ;)). As I've said, the 5.56 is more familiar to me and I'd like to start with a smaller caliber and move up. I'm not looking to go hunting or anything, I just want something I can have some fun on the range with, while still having some practical applications if I ever needed it for something other than plinking.

At the moment I'm mostly looking for something lightweight, customizable, and good for plinking. I'd LOVE an AR-15, but those are expensive as hell from what I've seen, not to mention restricted. For now I'm leaning towards the 10/22 as I hear they have a fairly good reputation, but I would like something with a bit more punch to it.

As for calling them "weapons"... just a force of habit that I call them that, hope it's not a problem. :S
 
colinjw said:
I do not call my guns ( firearms ) weapons.
But that is my opinion & it's a free country ( sort of ).
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X2 - I agree this is something we should avoid, firstly becuase they are not weapons until used as such (criminal code definition), and secondly because it poses a negative image to trolling anti's. It just has a negative sound to the word. It is a free world and you can use whatever terms you want, and it may be force of habit, but as firearms owners fighting a continuous negative image of our interest and sports, I think we should all make a concerted effort to paint things in a positive manner.
It just happens to be a pet peeve of mine, so my opinion only.
 
All legal as long as the OAL is above the legal threshold for non-restricted. If the gun started life as a restricted then that doesn't matter. Taking a non-restricted firearm and shortening it below the OAL specified in the CCC makes a firearm prohibited though, so you gotta be careful with that.
 
Sorry Greenwolf, meant to add this as well. A 10/22 is a proven performer, and extremely inexpensive to shoot, so a good start. There are also quite a few customizable .22's on the market now that would make a good starting point, and you can have a bunch of fun while saving for, or deciding which to buy next.
Check out the Ruger SR22 available from many of the shops supporting this site. It might be just what you're looking for. An AR replica. Check SFRC (ammosource.com) for details and they're right there in K-town area.
 
Ok I think my base questions have been answered... and having done a little more research I've decided folding stock is not for me. I am more convinced to get a 10/22 as a starter for now, but I do still want a rifle with some punch as well.

I do have one last question: If I DO get a Norinco M305 (or another M14 platform) down the line are there reliable synthetic stock sets, preferably with a pistol grip, that would reduce the overall weight of the firearm and improve handling? I ask, because the few times I've held a classic-style M14, I've liked it a lot BUT disliked the weight and balance. I'm far to used to a pistol grip. Having never actually fired the said firearm, I won't judge it yet... but I'd like to have the option if I do decide to go for a .308.

Thanks again to everyone for being so helpful. :)

*edit* it occurs to me I've overlooked the SKS... I know there are synthetic stocks for them and they fire an intermediate round, any thoughts on them? I'm gonna go do some research. ;)
 
I know that Marstar sells aftermarket stock/rail systems for the M14S/M305. Never handled one however so I can't speak as to how well they perform.

Greenwolf said:
Ok I think my base questions have been answered... and having done a little more research I've decided folding stock is not for me. I am more convinced to get a 10/22 as a starter for now, but I do still want a rifle with some punch as well.

I do have one last question: If I DO get a Norinco M305 (or another M14 platform) down the line are there reliable synthetic stock sets, preferably with a pistol grip, that would reduce the overall weight of the firearm and improve handling? I ask, because the few times I've held a classic-style M14, I've liked it a lot BUT disliked the weight and balance. I'm far to used to a pistol grip. Having never actually fired the said firearm, I won't judge it yet... but I'd like to have the option if I do decide to go for a .308.

Thanks again to everyone for being so helpful. :)

*edit* it occurs to me I've overlooked the SKS... I know there are synthetic stocks for them and they fire an intermediate round, any thoughts on them? I'm gonna go do some research. ;)
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unfortunately, there is NO way the reduce the basic weight of the m14 by other than a pound or so- there's so much steel , and it's all NECESSARY- do some real research on the m14 and READ THE STICKIES on this forum BEFORE you decide you want one- they're not a target rifle, too heavy to hunt with, and with the 20 round mag blocked to 5, no real advantage overany other semi 308 out there- indeed, the way it mounts a scope can also be expensive- so unless you want to get into one of the competitions, a poor choice- however- they're a RELAIBLE rifle and right now, DEAD CHEAP compared to anything else- so why do i have 4-?- well 3 are isreali and i did use them for comp way back when - haven't the heart to get rid of them or knock them down into pieces- the 4th one is a norinco - a very early one - and that's my shtf rifle- you need one shtf rifle, just in case-
the other con is that the 305 won't take the "popular" load for the 308-the 180 grain spitzer- your're stuck sith something under 170 grains, namely the 165 for hunting and the 168 for match- that means handloading to get the best performance- and the new aluminum chassis ADD weight, not remove it- i still use the issued fiberglas stock, as i consider it to be the best stock out there - talk to the guys that use them, and they'll say the same thing
 
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"...folding stocks legal..." Yep. As long as the rifle longer than 26" when folded. Useless for shooting when folded though.
Stock Mini-14's are over priced and inaccurate. Fun and relatively inexpensive to shoot though. Of course, nowhere near as inexpensive as any .22. A 10/22 runs about $300.
Epp's lists a bunch of Mini's at over $800. Nearly a grand for the much better Mini-14 Target.
"...reduce the overall weight of the firearm..." Not by much. 'Heavy' isn't necessarily a bad thing either. Stynthetics stocks increase the muzzle jump too. Only noticeable when shooting on your hind legs(standing) though. The felt recoil is low anyway, but a muzzle brake can reduce the muzzle jump.
 
t-star said:
unfortunately, there is NO way the reduce the basic weight of the m14 by other than a pound or so- there's so much steel , and it's all NECESSARY- do some real research on the m14 and READ THE STICKIES on this forum BEFORE you decide you want one
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I did do some basic research, but mostly skimmed when it came to the M14 as I kept getting side-tracked. Sorry if this bothered you I'll try to do some more in-depth research next time. Though I would like to point out I am far from decided on which guns I want.

t-star said:
you need one shtf rifle, just in case
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Ok, you got me. This is one of the big reasons I want a rifle that is relatively lightweight and easy to handle, as well as reliable with some punch. I have to admit I'm a little paranoid admitting it, as it seems like such a stupid thing to want and very noobish thing to ask about... but in this day in age I'd rather be safe than sorry.

The key here for me is handling, I had heard of the M14s reliability, but the handling I had experienced made me hesitant. I'm also doubtful I'd need the kind of range of a .308 in a SHTF, which is why I was asking about improving an M14's handling. Hence looking for alternatives like:

sunray said:
Stock Mini-14's are over priced and inaccurate. Fun and relatively inexpensive to shoot though.
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I have to admit I did not look into the Mini-14 too strongly, it was more of a passing fancy based on the "like the M14 but easier to handle in a tight spot". Again I'll try to be more thorough in my research in the future, though in my defense most of the reviews I had found on the Mini-14 were of the much more accurate Target grade. I was unaware of the difference until today.

This leads me back to a previous question: I've read a few reviews I've found around the web, and skimmed the SKS guide here on CGN, and it's given me the impression the SKS may be more what I'm looking for. I gather while it is not the most accurate rifle, it is reliable and most importantly cheap. The intermediate 7.62x39mm round would probably suit me better, and isn't that expensive ($200 for 1,120 rounds at Marstar). I know there are pistol grip stock and grip sets available in Canada. So my question is: Would an SKS be a suitable, intermediate cartridge firearm that would be suitable as both a plinker, and as a SHTF rifle?

*edit*

I really hope I'm not falling into the "Annoying newb" category. :(

Also before someone points out that the 10/22 would make a lousy SHTF rifle. I know. I want one anyway.
 
sorry if i came off as a know-it-all, but i was trained on the 14 and carried it for many years , and i've also "had" the mini- mine was a pos- everything rumored was true about the accuracy, and i traded it for a remington rand -scope , mount, folding stock, extra 30 round mags, you name it- i had it- as for the sks, i can't speak to it as i have no use for the 7.62x39 round(which is 311 btw, not 308) just in case you decide to get into reloading- but that's more of a personal choice and geographical nature- think of it as a light 30-30 round in semi-automatic, and see if that suits your needs- i can tell you they WILL go straight through an american m1 helmet and liner like butter under 300 yards- in close cover, it works well- most of my shots are of animals somewhat larger than whitetail and just under 300- from horseback- again, from a personal point of view, i'd go RUSSIAN before chinese for the few extra dollars it costs- fit , finish, and it just plain feels better- but don't bother with a scope - the accuracy isn't in the rifle
 
hi there. the sks is a great choice for an afordable plinker. I prefer the russian ones over the chinese for the overall fit and finish but both work well. you can also get a folding stock for it if you decide that you still want one. The cz 858 is going to run you more money but is also alot of fun and it uses the same cheap ammo. The sr22 is a well made rifle and if you get a more recently imported one they have a collaspable stock that is not pinned. If you decide to go with the sr22 make sure you get the butler creek 25 round mags with steel lips and a speed loader too. your fingers will thank you. happy shopping
 
I may be biased but I really liked the feel of the C7 in 5.56, I've only ever fired a 7.62 twice, and once was belt-fed (which is unlikely to happen again anytime soon ). As I've said, the 5.56 is more familiar to me and I'd like to start with a smaller caliber and move up. I'm not looking to go hunting or anything, I just want something I can have some fun on the range with, while still having some practical applications if I ever needed it for something other than plinking.
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If youre just punching paper. The 5.56 (C7 round is great) But from i found can get a little boring. 7.62 belt fed = amazing. How ever i only shoot that military side. but even bolt action or semi auto is fun. 5.56 would be good to start but id also recommend 7.62 aswell. I have a blast with it. and well i like shooting things are range.

My 2 cents.
 
Greenwolf said:
Thanks for the info... didn't know Mini-14s had a rep for bad accuracy. As for the round size: I may be biased but I really liked the feel of the C7 in 5.56, I've only ever fired a 7.62 twice, and once was belt-fed (which is unlikely to happen again anytime soon ;)). As I've said, the 5.56 is more familiar to me and I'd like to start with a smaller caliber and move up. I'm not looking to go hunting or anything, I just want something I can have some fun on the range with, while still having some practical applications if I ever needed it for something other than plinking.

At the moment I'm mostly looking for something lightweight, customizable, and good for plinking. I'd LOVE an AR-15, but those are expensive as hell from what I've seen, not to mention restricted. For now I'm leaning towards the 10/22 as I hear they have a fairly good reputation, but I would like something with a bit more punch to it.

As for calling them "weapons"... just a force of habit that I call them that, hope it's not a problem. :S
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It's not really debatable that guns are weapons as well as target shooters, it's a good thing to keep in mind at all times. They're not toys, although they're fun to shoot, they can be killing tools. Being constantly aware of that fact keeps you and people around you safe.
 
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