Forming 9.3X62 from 30-06 brass.

W

Why not?

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This thread is for those who want to know how this is done, and came about as a result of discussion in an earlier thread on the 9.3X62 as a hunting cartridge. http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=661753

Rather than take that discussion too far off track, started this new thread. Please add you comments as you see fit.

To start, here are the dimensions of the 30-06 and the 9.3X62 chambers.

cd3006.jpg


cd93x62.jpg




As you can see, the 9.3 is six thousandths larger in the base than the '06. This was the area of discussion.

In the previous thread I posted that there is lots of 9.3X62 brass that is available today. It is made by many different manufacturers, and easily obtained, so the use 30-06 brass to form 9.3 is not nearly as common as in years past. However, I was asked how I formed 9.3X62 cases using 30-06 brass, so today I formed five cases, loaded the ammo, went to the range, and fired them in one of my rifles, a factory built Husqvarna rifle on the 98 Mauser action.

It's late, and I'm going to hit the sack, but here's a few pictures to get us started.

HPIM5419.jpg


IMGP3099.jpg


IMGP3103-1.jpg


IMGP3104.jpg


Good night, :)
Ted
 
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i have a bunch of 9.3x62 brass from different company's , the largest diameter is .472 , the smallest is .470 .

off hand , most of the 30-06 brass i have is around .468 - .470 .

this is less than half the variation i have seen between north american 6.5x55 brass and european 6.5x55 brass .

worst case senario you get loose primer pockets in the reformed 30-06 brass sooner than you would with the 9.3x62 brass
 
Thanks for sharing - good explanation and pics. The "bulge" above the web is slight, but clearly visible in your pics.

I have formed brass for the 8X63 Swedish from 30/06, where the difference was greater than 15 thou, and it resulted in a more pronounced bulge. I wrapped aluminum tape around the base to ensure that it was centred, and thereafter removed it. After five full strength firings I did a post mortem by sectionning the fired cases, and there was no incipient separation, not even a noticeable thinning of the brass at the transition to the bulge.

In most chambers the casehead is only partially supported and there is always a few thou of clearance along its full length. There's nothing unsafe about using 30/06 to make 9.3X62.

Here's a photo exhibit of making 8X63 from 30/06 - the process is identical to what you use. The fifth cartridge is an 8X63 cartridge. Notice the pronounced bulge on the fourth cartridge made from 30/06.

U474qkQ.jpg


Cartridges1.JPG
 
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I'm glad that Why not? started this thread, as I think it may be in response to me posting a couple of times on the ease of making 9.3x62 brass from 30-06 by simply annealing your brass, and running them through 9.3x62 dies and trimming. He and BUM pointed out that doing this can cause problems with non CRF rifles and may result in a bulge in your brass.

I've been making my 9.3x62 brass using the process I described since I got my 9.3x57 re-chambered to 9.3x62. My 9.3x62 is a CRF action, btw. How did I get on to doing that? Well, firstly, the gunsmith who did the re-chamber told me that was the best way of getting brass for the 9.3x62, and he advised against fancy fire-forming, or other things as being a waste of time. He told me just load up die-sized 30-06 brass and you're done. He never mentioned annealing, but I do it as standard when resizng brass. I also did a bunch of digging around on the internet and found loads of people doing the same. I also checked my reloading manuals and found that my Barnes #1 mentioned how easy it was to form 9.3x62 from 30-06 brass (no details given...), and my Speer #11 also stated "...cases are easliy formed from 30-06 cases by necking them to the proper diameter and seating the bullets out far enough to hold the case firmly in place for the initial firing..." I'm also 99% sure that somewhere I found published data from RCBS stating you could use their 9.3x62 dies to form brass by simply running 30-06 brass through them and trimming, but I cannot find the source right now. None of those sources mentioned that there might be problems with non CRF actions like BUM pointed out, but BUM's information strikes me as inherently sound.

93x621.jpg


Here's a pic if my 9.3x62 brass, some not yet fired, some 1F, all formed from 30-06. I can't see any real bulging at all in my brass to be honest. I certainly have not had any problems with my formed 9.3x62 brass so far.

Why not?'s advice of creating a false shoulder before sizing back down to 9.3mm seems a great safety measure, and I have found mention of doing this elsewhere (gunsandammo online site).

I guess I'm posting to say that I didn't mean to give out any advice that might cause non CRF action owners any trouble, and wasn't just repeating something I'd heard when I posted. I myself was using the exact process I described in the other thread, and was doing it on gunsmith's advice and with supporting advice from reloading manuals, and it was working fine for me.

Anyhow. Whatever you all use to hold your primer and powder and bullet together in your 9.3x62, I hope you enjoy this fine hunting cartridge!
 
If you go with the standards, wich were determined for safety reasons, the 9.3X62 specs are as following;

Case - Base ; 12.10mm (0.4764") MAX / 11.9mm (0.4685") MIN - The tolerance is 0.20mm (0.008")
Chamber - Base ; 12.13mm (0.4776") MIN / 12.167mm (0.4790") MAX - The tolerance is 0.037mm (0.0015")

The CIP MAX diameter tolerance for the chambers is calculated this way;
P1-H2 / L3-E wich are 12.13 - 9.94 / 62.30 - 3.20 = 0.037 mm (sometimes rounded as 0.04mm)

As CIP don't use a reference Datum Circle on the cone (shoulder) their tolerances for the chamber bases always tend to be a bit smaller than those used under SAAMI specs.

SAAMI's specs for the '06 are;

Case - Base ; 0.4698" (11.933mm) MAX / 0.4618" (11.733mm) MIN - the tolerance is 0.008" (0.20mm)
Chamber - Base ; 0.4708" (11.958mm) MIN / 0.4728" (12.008mm) MAX - the tolerance is 0.002" (0.05mm)

So, based on that we can say that, yes, '06 brass is undersize for the X62 case for the manufacturing standards. The Max '06 base dimension is the minimum dimension for the X62. We all know that US manufacturers tend to size their brass on the mid-lower tolerance, and European manufacturers tend to make it to the mid-higher dimensions.
Using '06 brass is like using a rifle wich falls between the No-Go and the Field gauges, but such things don't exist in civilian firearms.

Using a false shoulder is a good thing to do, because it will avoid base material stretching.
Is it dangerous? - Yours to judge.
 
Why not?, I think you should write a book that chronicles your experience and adventures in the Yukon. I'll buy the first copy.

Please include chapters on rifles and cartridges, moose, caribou, lake trout, canoes, float planes and campfires in front of a canvas tent.


Thank you.
 
Here's the RCBS die for necking 30 cal to 400. You can also use a .375 neck expander, but it does not give nearly the false shoulder that a 400 does.

HPIM5418.jpg


Lube the inside of the standard 30-06 neck well, bottom case, and a single pas through the die gets you the case in the middle of this picture.

HPIM5419.jpg


The next step is to lube the straight case for sizing. The FL sizing die is then set so the bolt will just barely close on the sized brass. This is accomplished by by turning the die down a bit at a time and checking a single case until the desired forming is reached. The top case has been formed to just barely close on my Husqvarna.

The lock ring is then set to keep the die at that position in the press, and all the brass is sized the same.

From there, it's just loading as normal. Do not use reduced loads for this step. Accuracy will be essentially no different from loads using fireformed cases. I have actually hunted with ammo that has not been fireformed on a number of occasions.

Next post will be with measurements of fireformed brass, and comparison to factory brass.

Ted
 
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Okay, here's some fired Dominion and Imperial brass that was reformed so long ago I have no idea how often it has been fired.

IMGP3200.jpg


It measures .473 at the expansion ring, the same as the fired Federal stuff I started this thread with. If you look closely, you can see the slight bulge ahead of the extractor groove.

IMGP3203.jpg


Have annealed the necks a couple of times, and am still using this brass. The black lines across the primer indicate the load I was using.

Ted
 
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Had a visit from one of Central Canadian members, and he had not seen this thread. Got to thinking about that, and figured I would just bring it back up in case there are a few others who might be interested.

Ted
 
Why not? said:
Had a visit from one of Central Canadian members, and he had not seen this thread. Got to thinking about that, and figured I would just bring it back up in case there are a few others who might be interested.

Ted
Click to expand...

Ted,
Yes, interested....I just bought some proper headstamp 9.3 at the Eganville gun show this past weekend, but still interested in this process as I have a few hundred '06 brass laying around. Where did you get that die? I searched the RCBS website and don't see it. Did you have it made?
Thanks
 
for what its worth I have been necking up 30-06 brass with a 375 expander ball .

then using a .375 round ball with a light crimp to keep the ball in place .

I've found that this is tight enough in the chamber to keep the case head firmly against the bolt face when fire forming .

marstar was selling the round balls , for powder I was using imr 4831 filled to the almost 1/2 way up the neck so the round ball slightly compressed the powder .
I was also annealing the brass before expanding it . the brass I was using was at least once fired Winchester from a gun show .

I don't know if this helps anyone , it is just a different way to skin a cat so to speak .
 
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