(FRAUD ALERT) Payment Issues ?

MJL

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I was looking for brass on e-Bay when I came upon an interesting comment by a seller that he had had his (FRAUD ALERT) account shut down because it contravened their Acceptable Use Policy. ( http://www.(FRAUD ALERT).com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/ua/use/index_frame-outside&ed=weapons ) In looking around in other places, I have found a couple other comments from individuals who have had their accounts shut down for the same reason.

Lifted from the (FRAUD ALERT) website:
AMMUNITION
You may not use (FRAUD ALERT) to buy or sell high-capacity magazines (those which hold more than 10 rounds), ammunition with propellant (e.g., gunpowder), or blank ammunition. The term "ammunition" means ammunition or cartridge cases, primers, bullets, or propellant powder designed for use in any firearm.


How widespread is their enforcement of this rule? Have any of you guys had issues with (FRAUD ALERT)?

I guess if nothing else, I will make sure that I keep dont advertise what the payments are for when I DO use it.

M
 
MJL said:
I guess if nothing else, I will make sure that I keep dont advertise what the payments are for when I DO use it.

that might work right up until you sell something using (FRAUD ALERT), and the buyer uses a description like "evil assault bullets" in spite of agreeing not to - both you and the buyer get their accounts cancelled and remaining funds held for some time.

Don't use it.
 
I've purchased both brass and bullets off ebay using (FRAUD ALERT) with no problems. Before I purchase anything off ebay I always ask if the seller ships to Canada, and NOT to ship by UPS (bunch of crooks!); US Postal Service only.
 
read my sig line DO NOT EVER use (FRAUD ALERT)

as a sell thier protection policey states you must ship item sig required

the person who signs MUST be the person you sent item to or NO seller protection...

you MUST provide (FRAUD ALERT) with PROOF the item was deliver to said address...

no companies web site shows the address just thats its been delivered...
(FRAUD ALERT) has set this up so its 99.9% impossible to be protected as a seller

im out BIG $ because of this I used them for 5 years and hundreds of deals and they ####ED me hard

they can and will freeze your account on a whim

check out www.(FRAUD ALERT)sucks.com
 
kfn said:
I've purchased both brass and bullets off ebay using (FRAUD ALERT) with no problems. Before I purchase anything off ebay I always ask if the seller ships to Canada, and NOT to ship by UPS (bunch of crooks!); US Postal Service only.

Still not legal :)
 
Icefire said:
Still not legal :)

Icefire: are you saying that you can't legally purchase reloading brass from the USA? That's new to a lot of people; could you please indicate a link so we're fully aware of this situation? Thanks; KFN
 
Here you go:

Q4. I want to buy parts in the US for my firearm and import them into Canada.

A4. The US controls on the export of firearms extends to parts also. For small orders worth less than US$100.00 the US Department of State allows an exemption from the export licence. This exemption, however, does not cover ‘significant’ parts which includes; barrels, slides, cylinders, bolts, frames and receivers. It should be noted that there is no equivalent exemption offered by the Department of Commerce for shotgun parts. Further, there is no exemption for ammunition or ammunition components. Canadian importers should follow the procedure outlined in Q1 (above) to import parts not exempted.

This is in the Legalese Forum if you are interested.
 
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Here's an assignment I did for a Website Development class I took a couple of years ago on (FRAUD ALERT):


March 3, 2004

Using (FRAUD ALERT)® An Online Payment System


This paper was originally going to cover different aspects of using (FRAUD ALERT) as an online

payment system. This topic had been suggested to me by **** ***** as a way of

researching a popular payment method for online transactions for my possible future

online business endeavors. Upon starting research for this paper, I found many websites

that document problems with using (FRAUD ALERT). In this paper, I will also be covering some of

the advantages and disadvantages of using (FRAUD ALERT) as a form of online payment as well.


(FRAUD ALERT)® (www.(FRAUD ALERT).com) was started in 1998 and is located in San Jose,

California. It soon became a popular form of payment over the internet because of it

offers free accounts and is easy to use. According to (FRAUD ALERT)’s website

(http://www.(FRAUD ALERT).com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/about-outside), it is currently

available in over 38 countries and has 40 million account members. It was purchased by

eBay Inc. (http://pages.ebay.com/community/aboutebay/overview/index.html) in

October, 2002.


According to www.(FRAUD ALERT).com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/ir/licenses-outside, (FRAUD ALERT),

Inc. is licensed in 24 States. There seems to be no other information about licensing

outside of the US on the website.


Information about non-US accounts from the page

www.(FRAUD ALERT).com/uk/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/approved_countries-outside

states that some countries can only make payments, but not receive them. There does not

seem to be any information about legalities of operating in non-US countries on this site

either.


Buyer and seller protection is based on the User Agreement. Any disputes between

the User and (FRAUD ALERT) are to be under the jurisdiction of the courts located within the

county of Santa Clara, California according to Policy 15.2 on page

www.(FRAUD ALERT).com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/ua/ua-outside from User Agreement for

(FRAUD ALERT)™ Service.


According to an article on the website www.Salon.com by Damien Cave

(http://dir.salon.com/tech/feature/2001/02/23/pay_pal/index.html):

“(FRAUD ALERT) thrives in what many consider a dangerous form of legal limbo. Though it looks

more and more like a bank with each passing week -- offering money market accounts

and as of this month, credit cards -- (FRAUD ALERT) remains outside the strictures of banking

laws. Consumer accounts have neither the protection of federal insurance systems like

FDIC nor the assurance of regulatory oversight. Even agencies such as the Federal Trade

Commission and Better Business Bureau, which have recently started familiarizing

themselves with several e-payment providers, appear to have limited power. Since (FRAUD ALERT)

is privately held, they don't even have the outright authority to scrutinize the company's

finances. As one FTC lawyer put it, "if they filed for bankruptcy tomorrow, no one

knows what would happen to their accounts."

Ultimately, no company that processes $7 million in transactions every day, as (FRAUD ALERT)

claims to do, deserves a free ride, says Ken Thomas, a finance professor at the Wharton

School of Business. Because (FRAUD ALERT) essentially works like a bank -- thriving in an

industry where "any type of activity involving payments is heavily regulated simply

because issues of public confidence are involved," he says -- they should be treated as a

bank. Changing the laws, or persuading (FRAUD ALERT) to buy a bank charter may be difficult,

slow and expensive but until then, Thiel and his 575 employees aren't just asking that

users endure a few technical difficulties. They're asking for nothing less than blind, pre-

Depression trust.


"This is banking circa 1928," says Tom McGrath, managing partner of Bank Earnings

International (BEI), a banking consulting company. "It's backwards. They could take all

these customers' dollars and misapply them, so the money isn't available when the person

wants it. They could be insolvent and no one would ever know."


This seems to be confirmed on (FRAUD ALERT)’s site at the page about FDIC (Federal Deposit

Insurance Corporation website: www.fdic.gov/) Pass-Through Insurance

(http://www.(FRAUD ALERT).com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/fdic-outside):

“You do not need to keep funds with (FRAUD ALERT) in order to use our service. If you do hold a

balance, you can do so in two ways: (1) (FRAUD ALERT), as your agent, will place your funds in a

pooled account at an unaffiliated FDIC-insured bank or savings institution, which is

eligible for pass-through FDIC insurance coverage; or (2) you can elect to earn a return

on your funds by enrolling to invest all funds that you receive into the (FRAUD ALERT) Money

Market Fund. The (FRAUD ALERT) Money Market Fund is not FDIC insured, not guaranteed by

any bank and may lose value. (FRAUD ALERT) keeps a record of the amount of your balances,

which you can check by logging in to your account through the (FRAUD ALERT) Web site at any

time. Balances held in currencies other than U.S. Dollars are not FDIC-insured.

If you do not enroll in the Money Market Fund, then in the unlikely event that an FDIC-

insured bank in which we place your money fails, your balance placed at the bank would

be subject to FDIC pass-through deposit insurance coverage, along with any other

deposits you hold at that bank, up to a total of $100,000. Pass-through deposit coverage is

contingent upon (FRAUD ALERT) maintaining accurate records and on determinations of the FDIC

as receiver at the time of a future receivership of any bank at which we place your funds.

FDIC pass-through deposit insurance protects you only against the failure of the bank at

which (FRAUD ALERT) places your funds, and does NOT protect you against (FRAUD ALERT)'s insolvency.

Through the terms of our User Agreement, we believe that your funds will also be

protected from any claims of (FRAUD ALERT)'s creditors and will be returned to you even in the

unlikely event of a (FRAUD ALERT) insolvency.

You can access a list of the banks where we place your money here.

Please see the User Agreement for more details on how we handle your money.”


This is one of many problems resulting in complaints against (FRAUD ALERT). The most

common complaint is the freezing of accounts, in which the user cannot access their

funds. The fact that (FRAUD ALERT) isn’t a bank, it doesn’t have to follow the laws of banking.

Many of the sites documenting complaints and problems with (FRAUD ALERT) point this out with

links and/or quotes from (FRAUD ALERT)’s User Agreements and other Terms of Use. By

agreeing to use (FRAUD ALERT), you are agreeing to do transactions under their rules. Your rights

to banking protection laws are waived. Some of these sites claim that there are also terms
and conditions not disclosed when signing up for accounts, which leaves the user’s

money in (FRAUD ALERT) accounts totally at risk and can and have been seized by (FRAUD ALERT).

(http://www.(FRAUD ALERT)sucks.com/ and http://www.(FRAUD ALERT)warning.com/)


Another common complaint is the customer service and response time to inquiries.

Phone numbers to contact (FRAUD ALERT) are intentionally made hard to find said Vince Sollitto,

a (FRAUD ALERT) spokesman in an MSNBC article (www.msnbc.com/news/511209.asp).

“This is to save costs.” Sollitto said. He also said in the same article on the subject of

customer complaints that “They are read, but taken with a grain of salt.”


The emails are also met with the same enthusiastic type of response. If an email is

responded to, it usually of the form letter type.


As a result of these practices, some (FRAUD ALERT) complaint sites have listed phone numbers

and addresses both physical and electronic to contact (FRAUD ALERT) offices.

(http://www.(FRAUD ALERT)sucks.com/faqs.shtml, http://www.(FRAUD ALERT)warning.com/, and

http://www.(FRAUD ALERT)suit.com/Phone.htm)


Many of these pages also list phone numbers and websites for law firms involved in

class action lawsuits against (FRAUD ALERT). Two of these law firms are Jacoby and Meyers

(http://www.jacoby-and-meyers.com/(FRAUD ALERT)Questionnaire/default.asp) and Gerrard,

Gibbs and De Bartolemeo (http://www.girardgibbs.com/(FRAUD ALERT).html).


The Better Business Bureau’s report on (FRAUD ALERT)
(www.bbbsilicon.org/common.html?loca...bindr/report.php&bureau=sanjose&compid=210387) had this to say (dated 03/02/2004):

“The following data concerns complaints processed by the BBB since the firm's file was

opened or over the last 36 months, whichever is less. (FRAUD ALERT), Inc. has had 2830

complaints. 666 were closed as Resolved. 1986 were closed as Assumed Resolved. 178

were closed as Adminstratively Judged Responsible. Of these complaints: 45 were

concerning Selling Practices. 26 were concerning Advertising Issues. 1465 were

concerning Service Issues. 62 were concerning Delivery Issues. 421 were concerning

Refund Practices. 10 were concerning Product Quality. 13 were concerning Contract

Disputes. 12 were concerning Guarantee or Warranty. 1 was concerning Repair Issues.”


(FRAUD ALERT) says that the reason for freezing accounts is that this is their policy while

investigating what they consider a possible fraud or security threat. This may happen to

both the seller and the buyer. (FRAUD ALERT) has listed restricted items and activities throughout

it’s User Agreement and Terms of Services (http://www.(FRAUD ALERT).com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/ua/ua-outside). Violation of these rules, even if unknown by one

of the parties involved in the transaction, can result in the freezing of both accounts, often

without returning of the funds.


The website Sue(FRAUD ALERT).org (http://sue(FRAUD ALERT).org) has many links and information

documenting the violations by clients of (FRAUD ALERT) and eBay policies, which allows them to

then seize the funds in the accounts of their clients.


Security problems also seem to be a common complaint. (FRAUD ALERT)’s security page

(http://www.(FRAUD ALERT).com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_security-center-outside) says that they use

Military Grade Encryption.


On page www.(FRAUD ALERT).com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/security-outside of (FRAUD ALERT)’s

site about security it says:

“(FRAUD ALERT) automatically encrypts your confidential information in transit from your

computer to ours using the Secure Sockets Layer protocol (SSL) with an encryption key

length of 128-bits (the highest level commercially available). Before you even register or

log in to our site, our server checks that you're using an approved browser - one that uses

SSL 3.0 or higher.

Once your information reaches us, it resides on a server that is heavily guarded both

physically and electronically. Our servers sit behind an electronic firewall and are not

directly connected to the Internet, so your private information is available only to

authorized computers.”


(FRAUD ALERT) also has an Identity Verification system (http://www.(FRAUD ALERT).com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/verification-faq-outside) which allows clients to improve trust in

their transactions, although it is not required to do transactions.


The (FRAUD ALERT) Security page (http://www.(FRAUD ALERT).com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_security-center-outside) also has information, tips and advice on security and privacy issues.

There are reported incidents of (FRAUD ALERT) accounts and software being hacked. The most

mentioned was from an article in Wired.com

(http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,51977,00.html) in which a way was found

to change the price of items on a website. This would allow the purchase of items worth

hundreds or thousands of dollars for a dollar as an example.


The main security concern was about “spoofing” or when websites and emails claim

to be (FRAUD ALERT) in order to get account information and/or access. Clients may be emailed

and told there is a problem with their account and they are to give account information to

help fix the problem. There are also websites that trick users into thinking that they are

using (FRAUD ALERT) when they aren’t.


(FRAUD ALERT)’s free accounts offer three options: Personal, Premier, and Business. (FRAUD ALERT)

charges Premier and Business accounts to receive payments. Personal accounts are free,

but may not receive credit card payments. Transactions fees are also applicable if

withdrawing from outside of the US (http://www.(FRAUD ALERT).com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_display-fees-outside).


For Canadian accounts, there is a $0.50 CAD withdrawal fee and a $30.00 CAD return

fee. Receiving fees are 3.4% of the amount + $0.55 CAD at the Standard Rate and 2.7%

of the amount + $0.55 CAD at the Merchant Rate. The Merchant Rate is available to

clients who meet the criteria (http://www.(FRAUD ALERT).com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_fees-rate-about-outside).


There is an additional cross border fee if you receive a payment from a user in another

country. The cross border fee is an additional 1% for U.S. Dollar payments and 0.5% for

Canadian Dollar, Euro, Pound Sterling, and Yen payments. This cross border fee is

currently waived for Canadian sellers receiving payments from U.S. buyers.


(FRAUD ALERT) Preferred Sellers (www.(FRAUD ALERT).com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_display-fees-ppp-outside) can earn 1.5% cashback on debit card purchases made with the free (FRAUD ALERT)

ATM/Debit Card (www.(FRAUD ALERT).com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/acc/dc_intro-outside). This

card allows clients to withdraw cash from their (FRAUD ALERT) accounts at ATMs, pay for

purchases wherever MasterCard is accepted, and allow clients instant access to the

money received in their (FRAUD ALERT) accounts.

(FRAUD ALERT)’s Shopping Cart (http://www.(FRAUD ALERT).com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/xcl/rec/sc-intro-outside) is free to use on client’s websites. It follows the fee schedule used for

other transactions. There are other business and management software available on the

(FRAUD ALERT)’s Merchant Tools page (http://www.(FRAUD ALERT).com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_merchant-outside) such as Buy Now Buttons, Shipping Center and Instant Payment Notification.


In conclusion, (FRAUD ALERT) may be a good way to get a payment system when starting an

online business. Starting an account with a shopping cart is free and small fees are

charged on transactions. Due to (FRAUD ALERT)’s popularity, customers are more likely to feel

safe using it.


Caution should be used if (FRAUD ALERT) is still an option, regardless of the type of account.

Recommendations for clients from websites warning about (FRAUD ALERT) are all basically the

same. The following advice is from the website (FRAUD ALERT)Suit.com

(www.(FRAUD ALERT)suit.com/Phone.htm under the heading “What should I do?):

“We strongly recommend that people keep their (FRAUD ALERT) balance as low as possible.

Remove funds immediately. Also, use a second banking account for (FRAUD ALERT) and as soon

as those funds are in there, move it to your main account. Be prepared to stop using

(FRAUD ALERT) at any time.”


These websites also suggest alternatives to using (FRAUD ALERT). Getting a merchant account

with a popular credit card such as MasterCard or Visa is the safest. This option may cost

more to set-up, but is probably the best way to go. There are also other e-currency

payment companies that are recommended by these sites, which may be another option to

investigate.

Sources Cited:

www.(FRAUD ALERT).com

http://www.(FRAUD ALERT)sucks.com/

http://www.(FRAUD ALERT)suit.com/

http://www.(FRAUD ALERT)warning.com/

www.bbbsilicon.org/common.html?loca...bindr/report.php&bureau=sanjose&compid=210387

www.msnbc.com/news/511209.asp

http://dir.salon.com/tech/feature/2001/02/23/pay_pal/index.html

http://sue(FRAUD ALERT).org

http://www.wilsonweb.com/wct5/(FRAUD ALERT)_assess.htm

http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,51977,00.html




Here are two other threads on CGN discussing gun related (FRAUD ALERT) problems:

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92591&highlight=(FRAUD ALERT)

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=117643&highlight=(FRAUD ALERT)
 
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