Free evaluation resource for dealers.

[twosteam]

Free evaluation resource for dealers.

Smellie, from the beautiful British thread.
I REALLY do not think that it is fair for a member to flaunt a rifle in front of everyone else, get all the information he can, get free valuations and all the rest..... and then immediately post the damned thing on the EE.

I get the feeling in cases such as this that I am being played for a sucker..... and so is everyone else who tried to help or offered opinions.... and I really do not like the feeling.

Perhaps now people will understand if I should participate a GREAT deal less in this forum.

I am pretty sure that there are a few others feeling the same way.

I see so very much of this- and I would not blame Smellie if he clammed up, these people ruin this hobby. They are not collectors and they simply want a free evaluation service. They could not care less for the item- If it were but for us valuing it, they would have no interest in it.

What does Smellie get? Insults from newbies, Baiting from the red and black forums and being used by traders. Not to mention ignorant twits who only get their info from published sources.. By all means do read but keep in mind- some stuff is so obscure that it does not get printed, very few know it- few bother to find it out.

Thankless job what?
janice

 

[Tinman204]

I had a feeling I'd see a thread of this nature this morning.

I understand how Smellie feels and thank god you guys are my real life friends so I don't have to go through "Smellie withdraw".

Tinman

 

[louthepou]

I, too, get a bit ticked off when what i think is an appetite for knowledge actually is a shortcut for money. This being said, i think that most of the time the enquiries here in the milsurp section have some amount of genuine milsurp interest, to varying degrees.

 

[mkrnel]

I, too, get a bit ticked off when what i think is an appetite for knowledge actually is a shortcut for money. This being said, i think that most of the time the enquiries here in the milsurp section have some amount of genuine milsurp interest, to varying degrees.

Your right Lou, most posters here have a genuine interest in their intentions for increasing their knowledge and showing others who share that interest about their hobby and the firearms that they have collected.

 

[Steve1987]

Hi Janice,

I posted my thoughts on this topic in the other thread before I realized you started this one.

I'm a little confused what the problem is?

As milsurp gun owners and collectors, the question of value and a request for an informal appraisal is a logical topic of discussion.

Whether you think the OP could be classier or not, this thread ultimately benefits the community:

-We have established a value for the rifle that can be used as a reference in the future.

-Potential buyers new to the milsurp community can view the thread and see the problems with this rifle. In this case, the wood is most likely replaced and the rifle is several hundred dollars overpriced. Would new collectors/milsurp enthusiasts know this if not for this thread?

Smellie: Just because the OP was planning to sell the rifle, I think your information on the topic still benefitted the community and in the end isn't that what's most important?

In many cases the usual CGN 'flippers' use false descriptions in their ads to hump up the items and there's no thread to discuss them, at least in this case we can discuss any problems/issues.

-Steve

 

[Steve1987]

Why is it fair we only discuss rifles people plan on keeping? And, how would we even know if the posters are selling off the site?

If someone is concerned that the information posted online in an open forum might be used to financially benefit someone else they would need to stop posting entirely because this is a 'risk' (if you consider it bad) we take everytime we post.

Personally, I'd like to see more threads discussing the junk constantly posted on the EE with strait up false and deceptive descritions aimed at tricking new collectors into paying above market value.

-Steve

 

[haretrigger]

Didn't see this thread had started either, but here is my $0.05:

To put this into perspective, I recently sold a milsurp rifle in the EE and changed my price to SPF (Which is a topic of a separate debate)

Within one day, I had two newer members contacting me asking for my selling price. I declined to provide that information, as I believe that to be private between the buyer and myself once a transaction has taken place. I gave a ballpark estimate of my observations of recent listed prices in the EE, but I also offered to have a look at the rifle if they provided pictures to my email.
One of the gents took me up on my offer as he was trying to determine value as the executor of an estate. I explained I was no expert, but he was nonetheless thankful at my offer to help.

Although I do disagree with the action of the OP in this thread (especially because he's been here longer that I have), we have to realize that there are many reasons this rifle could have been placed up for sale after it being vetted here that could vary from iniquitous to genuine.

Many users here aren't constantly browsing the EE and don't have a general concept of value and wouldn't know a reasonable price versus and outrageous one when they see it. I am also convinced others simply list their items with high asking prices as either a public display of gloating, or as a form of electronic appeasement to satisfy unreasonable demands of a spouse.

At least the OP didn't get the rifle home and start "improving" the rifle by attaching picatinny rails, flash lights, cup holders and a red dot sight, before the black bed liner had dried on the furniture.

 

[mkrnel]

I think the way it was so quickly moved from look what I got! how much does everybody think it's worth? to now for sale in the EE without any mention that was the likely the direction it was headed that upset some posters who thought that they are being used as a free aprasial service without the full disclosure beforehand.

Also I usually just leave my asking price in my EE WTS posting and put a "Now SPF" after it and then remove the posting after the sale is complete. I have had people routinely send me a I'll take it and never follow up with payment, so if within a reasonable time they don't follow up with payment I just edit out the "Now SPF" and the gun is back up for sale at the same before listed price.

 

[neal]

I for one really appreciate all of the knowledge that I have gained in the milsurps forum. I have asked many questions and received such curteous replys and pm's. It is a sad day when a some members exploit the generosity of others.

 

[myenfield]

I have used the knowledge and experience of others on the milsurp section to determine an accurate/realistic price to sell certain items and I can't see anything wrong with doing so as long as the OP's intentions are clear to begin with - "what should I ask for this" or "what is this worth if I sell it". I haven't looked at the thread that is causing the rukus, but I would certainly hope members like Smellie don't stop sharing simply because one person acts like a dink. There are many, many more who can genuinely benefit from the type of discussion Smellie and others on this board provide.

 

[mkrnel]

I know the original poster and he seems a decent guy, I just think the way he went about this was just a little off putting to some of the other posters, I think we should give him some leeway now as I am sure he is feeling bad the way it has transpired and hopefully will post with a bit more thought next time. There is nothing wrong with his trying to sell a firearm that he thinks he can make some good money on and that others will want to buy, the market will decide the price he gets.

 

[Steve1987]

I'm in agreement it would be curtious for posters to explain their intentions, for example "I'm planning on selling this and need a realistic value". In this case, we aren't even sure if selling was OP's first intention. It could be he just realized he can't afford this item right now and spent a little more than his budget at the gun show.

-Steve

 

[Tinman204]

I have no problem with someone starting a thread that clearly states that the gun in question will be sold.

What rubs me the wrong way is the fact that these posters usually don't say a word to denote that they will sell the gun. Also, if 10 people say $400-$500 and one says $800 they always list it for $800.

That doesnt set a real market value and does nothing to show new collectors what things are actually worth. For those of us that buy a lot of guns at auctions, on the EE and at gun shows the price is indeed $400-$500. $800 buts a correct VG condition numbers matching example which the gun in question was probably not. It was in nice shape but I'd say it was restored to look that way and unless we were provided with better and more detailed
pics Giving a value over the Internet is a "Guess" at best.

This is also the reason that I refrain from giving values unless the pictures are very clear and show all of the most important parts of the rifle.

I fond unless I can inspect the rifle in person I'm hesitant to give values.

For instance I bought this gun from a local it's a 43 longbranch mint bore mint wood what is it worth??

Please give your appraisals based on the above. I know what it's worth but I'm curious as to what people will say?

 

[rob bishop]

For starters thank you Smellie for all the knowledge you share. It's not right people for people to use you as a free appraisal service. It really burns my a$$ that a few bad apples could spoil it for everyone here. I don't post much on here, I find that searching and reading you'll find what you need to know, and when I find a post from Smellie I read it and try to absorb a little of his knowledge, even though my wife says I am rather dense at times.

As for your gun Tinman, I have a single shot H&R 20 gauge with a bent barrel that I think would be an even trade

 

[tommyinbc]

Having just denoted the item in question and the 'excitement' this person displayed at the purchase of the rifle. The unfolding story and the 'delight' that he was displaying at his new 'find' (and other people's genuine delight for that owner) it does leave a sour taste to be drawn in only to find it up for sale and basically the owner is just out to make a few $..Shame..!
Just be up front and honest and save us from being happy for you and your new 'gun show find'...
My response for many years to the 'what's it worth' question is basically the same.. "Its worth what someone will pay for it"...
Oh and just to add..Doesn't it piss you off to see someone you don't know ask "What did you pay for it ?"...Aghhhh

 

[Tinman204]

For starters thank you Smellie for all the knowledge you share. It's not right people for people to use you as a free appraisal service. It really burns my a$$ that a few bad apples could spoil it for everyone here. I don't post much on here, I find that searching and reading you'll find what you need to know, and when I find a post from Smellie I read it and try to absorb a little of his knowledge, even though my wife says I am rather dense at times.

As for your gun Tinman, I have a single shot H&R 20 gauge with a bent barrel that I think would be an even trade

Based on your detailed description I'd rate your 20g as G to VG condition. Fair market value I'd put at around $1000!

 

[rob bishop]

Based on your detailed description I'd rate your 20g as G to VG condition. Fair market value I'd put at around $1000!

I like your thinkin!

 

[BadgerDog]

My two cents for what it's worth...

Smellie was a member of our Advisory Panel and I have to say, he's one terrific human being. He has always unselfishly shared his wide range of expertise and knowledge with everyone, expecting nothing in return.

If anyone knowingly uses him as a free valuation service to establish a benchmark in order to make money for themselves, then they should at least send him a gift certificate for a 26'er upon selling the piece.

What type of poison are you drinking nowadays partner?

Regards,
Doug

 

[flying pig]

To be honest, I really wish things would go back to the way they were a couple years ago in the milsurps forum. Smellie and Buffdog's lengthy posts were always a welcome read in my daily browsing. These guys made this forum a much more fun place to hang out. It's too bad that Smellie for sure and possibly Buffdog? Have been taking a step back from posting here. I really miss reading the history Smellie would post, and just about firearms but about military history in general. He's a walking encyclopedia, but one written with personality and flair. I would love to see posts like that here again, no one else seems to do that here and to be frank things are starting to get a bit dry. Over at BadgerDog's sight there are a few fellows who do show a bit of personality, and they are pretty entertaining at times but it's just not the same. Smellie and Buffdog are kind of like the good old boys here and I feel like they have really helped to spike a lot of interest not just in the small arms but in the history they represent. They also make it feel like collecting lower end arms is just as much fun and just as interesting as collecting the high ticket items.

It's unfortunate that people have to attack that, even if it's not meant to attack them directly. I really do wish that there was something I could say that would help convince him to post more again, there are a lot of people here who really do miss all the things these guys have shared. Feels like we are really missing out here!

 

[tokguy]

It's too bad, but we seem to be seeing less of Smellies post's.
Pity, he knows his stuff and puts lots forth that is noteworthy.
And he really does have an impressive collection; he can field strip a Luger or P38 in about the same time it takes a smoker to get a cigarette out and lit, it's so fast you wonder if it happened.
In case I forget; Thanks again for the assistance rendered, Smellie