Friend's Ross M-10

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Oscuro

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Well, my best friend recently moved back from Ontario and has added substansially to his collection...Including a nice Ross M-10. The front sight is a bit bubba'd and I think the stock might have been chopped (Sorry, horrid memory and I was just holding it not 6 hours ago).

Thing is, I believe it is one of those rare, and dangerous un-pinned bolts. He hasn't dared to fire it yet, fearing, quite logically for his own safety. When he put the bolt in, it was a bit figity, but he slid it in on the second try. I took the rifle and cycled the bolt, marveling at how smooth the cycle was. I thought to check and see the action, so I pointed the (obviously unloaded) rifle down at the floor, and cycled the bolt. I did not see the head of it turn. At all.

The reason I post this is because I searched and saw this thread and asked myself: would it be a good idea to take video of this for confirmation of the state of this bolt? If it is, it would probably be a good, and very graphic showing of exactly what to look for. (No, no shooting it with the bolt like this yet...)
 
Open the bolt until the head is clear of the receiver ring. Are the locking lugs about an inch in front of the bolt body? That's how things should be. Close the bolt. The lugs will disappear into the receiver ring. The bolt body will continue moving foreward and you will be able to see the bolthead shank rotating as the lugs turn into locked position. If the bolt is opened, and the lugs are back against the bolt body, THERE IS A PROBLEM, DON'T SHOOT THE RIFLE! Can you post a photo of the action taken from above, of the bolt open?
PM your email address, and I can sent you photos of what things should look like.
 
Well - I have several M-10's, including one that is un-pinned. Its actually very difficult, if not impossible, to insert the bolt with the bolt head rotated 180 deg out.
Its difficult to insert the bolt into the action, as it has a habit of collapsing. However, that infers that he had the bolt extended properly in the first place.(With the bolt out of the rifle, pull on the bolthead - if collapsed, it will rotate and lock in the extended position - its now ready for insertion.)
I dont have a rifle handy at the moment - from memory - the bolt head should display a gas vent hole pointing upward. And you should be able to see the bolt head completely engage the threads in the receiver. Mark the bolt head with a marker to confirm, if needed.
 
*laughs* Tiriaq, there is no question that this rifle is NOT getting used until the bolt is guaranteed safe (And even then, we might remotely trigger it just to make sure....).
I will take the camera with me today when I drop by and take some pictures to verify, and possibly video. I don't remember if the bolt head was spaced an inch, but I do remember watching the threaded part going into the receiver and watching it not rotate.
 
If you are really concerned, run a cleaning rod down the bore with the bolt closed. Can you open the bolt by pushing? If not the bolt is locked. In fact if the bolt is not assembled properly holding the muzzle upwards would allow the action to open. This is a really overblown concern. You have to really try to fire the rifle with the bolt unlocked.
 
My bolt is also unpinned. From what I have read, on CGM and Mil Surp, this is what the bolt should look like.

rossopenev3.jpg
 
I was given one in 1967 and lashed it into an empty tire, pointed it at a dirt bank, hid behind tree and pulled the trigger with a string. It worked fine and I went on to shoot my first deer and several others with it.
 
I have been shooting Ross Rifles for almost 45 years now; I still have all my fingers, both eyes and both cheekbones. Hmmm..... mebbe I'm doing something wrong!

As the man said, there should be a definite space between the front of the bolt sleeve and the rear of the locking-lugs. My thumb fits in this space okay, so I call it the "Rule of Thumb". There are only two positions that the bolt-sleeve can sit in: less than a quarter-inch (UNSAFE) and just about an inch (SAFE). If you can't remember which is which, remember the Rule of Thumb.

I have seen some Ross Model 1910 rifles that you CAN get the bolt into when it is assembled wrong, and it works real slick, so that is not the best indicator, especially if you want to stay uninjured. Use the Rule of Thumb.

By the way, even if the bolt has not been pinned, it can NOT get out of whack unless you take it out of the rifle and mess with it. Incorrectly-assembled bolts are NOT a rifle problem: they are a MAINTENANCE problem.

Good luck and have fun.
 
Also, you might be surprised and the bolt is pinned. I would have swore my bolt was unpinned. Then someone posted a picture of a pinned bolt so I compared it to mine. Sure enough, when you know what you're looking for, you can find the pin.
You aren't looking for a pin, you're looking for a 1/8 inch or less discoloured round spot on the upper smooth side of the bolt. Very faint.
 
Thank you for all the help, going to go and see him soon armed with this info, as well as a complete copy of the "disassemble" thread so that he can clean it if he feels like (He doesn't have internet at the moment).
Thank you everyone for the help once more, and hopefully...soon, I might be able to bring you all a range report on this M10.
 
Oscuro said:
(He doesn't have internet at the moment).
Click to expand...

Good Lord!! OK boys, let's take up a collection. There is a gun lover who doesn't know we love and miss him. He needs the internet badly.
 
I have an idea on how to test if the Ross bolt is liable to fly backwards when fired:

Load an empty cartridge case into the reassembled gun, and then push a cleaning rod down the barrel. If the lugs are not locked to the receiver, the rod will push the bolt out of battery.

Does this idea make sense? If the bolt was incorrectly reassembled, would it be easy to push out, or would it offer some resistance?
 
Steppenwolf said:
My bolt is also unpinned. From what I have read, on CGM and Mil Surp, this is what the bolt should look like.

rossopenev3.jpg
Click to expand...

This is exactly how the bolt should appear. With the bolt pulled back there is that inch or so gap between the locking lugs and the bolt body. If the bolt were assembled incorrectly, the locking lugs would be in the same position, but the gap would not be there and the bolt would be about an inch or so shorter. By the way, there is no way to insert the bolt fully closed when it is assembled incorrectly. The bolt will go in most of the way, but the ramp at the breach end of the barrel will try to rotate the bolt face and will not be able to. What used to happen when assembled incorrectly is that the extracter claw would hold a live round againts the bolt face with enough force the the firing pin could still fire the round. With the locking lugs not rotated 90 degrees, you know what will happen. It is very easy in peace time to tell if the bolt isn't going all the way in, but not so easy when there are Germans shooting at you. The flaw it the design IMHO is not so much the bolt, but the ability to drop the cocking piece when the bolt is partly out of battery. If you look closely with a flashlight as you slowly close the bolt you will see it turn. When the Ross is set up right, they are a pleasure to shoot, and next to the Jap Arisaka, the strongest military action ever built. Just be sure to snap the bolt forward with some authority when shooting and you'll be fine. I have an M-10 all original with bayonet, and she's a tack driver.:D
 
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