Frustrated....need help from the pros

Throttle_monkey1

Throttle_monkey1

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Hey guys, went to the range this afternoon to finish load development on my Carl gustafs 7mm. Was hoping to fire 20 of my hand loads and get this thing dialed in. Ended up going through all 60 rounds I had with me. I was only shooting three shot groups and the third shot was all over the place every time. Here are some pics:





I was thinking it was me, but then thought the floated barrel might be touching as it warmed up. A guy at the range mentioned that the rifle might need a pressure point up front. (I floated this myself). So on my final group before I left I fired four rounds. The first two were close and the third was the same damned flier (shooter or rifle induced). I then fired a fourth shot and it ended up pretty much where the first two were.

Here's a pic:





Do you guys think it's me or the gun? I hope it's me because I don't know what to do with the rifle if it's the rifle. It's a 7mm rem mag. Maybe 60 rounds off the bench caused me to flinch? Open to any advice. I think the gun is capable of great accuracy and I want the only ####ty variable in the equation to be me.
 
What weight bullets are you using? Have you checked run-out? Try adjusting the OAL and I'd also consider trying a different primer. I've had really good luck with Rem 9 1/2 primers.
 
check the scope fasteners first, then check it for parallax issues at 100 yards, then we'll discuss your reloads
 
Thanks guys. They are 150 grain accubond long range with a healthy dose of reloader 17. The loads produced between 3200 fps and the max load produced 3290 but I got extractor marks on the brass so I'm going to settle on the load that averages 3200-3220. This flier thing happened at all load ranges (all loads were within 1.1 grains at the max end of the load range).

I roll each loaded cartridge on a flat surface to check for concentricity but it's not very precise. I don't check them with a dial indicator. Scope is a Nikon monarch prostaff 2.5-10x42. I'll check for parallax next time I'm out. Wondering if it's the rests. I bought a Caldwell front and rear rest and they're way too hard. Put a toque between the stock and the rest in the front and ended up putting a sweater between the stock and the rear rest. Tightened up the groups, but still had the fliers. Scope fasteners are tight, bases are tight. Action screws are tight.
 
how much time between shots? i'd go 3 to 4 minutes between shots on a pencil barrel hunting rifle, then sight in with 2 shot groups 15 minutes apart before hunting
 
Trya box of factory ammo, and bring a friend along to shoot it as well. That will give you an idea if it's your loads and/or you.
Ivor
 
yodave said:
how much time between shots? i'd go 3 to 4 minutes between shots on a pencil barrel hunting rifle, then sight in with 2 shot groups 15 minutes apart before hunting
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Interesting. It's not a pencil thin lightweight barrel but not a heavy barrel either. I guess it's a normal barrel? I would do three shots within a minute or so and then put it on the rack and play with a beater semiauto until it was time to again. The barrel never did get too hot to touch.

The 4 shot group was done with same process as the 3 shot groups. I might just do what you suggest for hunting. Ivor- I had a box of Winchester power points there and I shot a 2.5" group with 4 shots.
 
Throttle_monkey1 said:
Interesting. It's not a pencil thin lightweight barrel but not a heavy barrel either. I guess it's a normal barrel? I would do three shots within a minute or so and then put it on the rack and play with a beater semiauto until it was time to again. The barrel never did get too hot to touch.

The 4 shot group was done with same process as the 3 shot groups. I might just do what you suggest for hunting. Ivor- I had a box of Winchester power points there and I shot a 2.5" group with 4 shots.
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are your headstamps all the same or are you mixing brass? using all remington brass for example or are you loading anything and everything?
 
That pretty much happens with all of my rifles. Pretty sure it's me. I'll shoot a couple that will pretty much touch, and the next shot will be off. I can stick something on the target the size of a quarter and hit it no problem... You let me shoot at a paper target, and if I shoot 3 shots, 2 will be dead on, and the next one will almost always be pretty much two inches off. I have tried everything I know to correct it... I guess that's just the best I can do... And it drives me crazy
 
Brass is all Winchester. Fired once, full length sized trimmed to length etc.

Sigrunes- you have no idea how happy I'd be if it weren't for that flyer. Maybe I'll just have to make sure I kill whatever I hunt with one shot? Or just stick to my 6.5x55
 
Hot barrel stringing. I'd worry more about the cold bore shot with a hunting rifle then how it groups with 3 shots in a minute....
See what kind of groups you get shooting 1 round every 5 mins.
 
noneck180 said:
How consistent is the trigger pull?..is the action bedded?..
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Trigger pull feels consistent, action is bedded.


steve-o1979 said:
That pretty much happens with all of my rifles. Pretty sure it's me. I'll shoot a couple that will pretty much touch, and the next shot will be off. I can stick something on the target the size of a quarter and hit it no problem... You let me shoot at a paper target, and if I shoot 3 shots, 2 will be dead on, and the next one will almost always be pretty much two inches off. I have tried everything I know to correct it... I guess that's just the best I can do... And it drives me crazy
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That makes me feel better. I'd rather know that it's me than chase imaginary issues with the rifle. Does it happen with all calibers for you? It doesn't happen with my 6.5x55, but 7mm mag has quite a bit more recoil than 6.5.

I don't even want to see the shotgun pattern I'd end up with if I tried to shoot tiny groups with my 375 ruger for half the day.
 
Hitzy said:
Hot barrel stringing. I'd worry more about the cold bore shot with a hunting rifle then how it groups with 3 shots in a minute....
See what kind of groups you get shooting 1 round every 5 mins.
Click to expand...

I'm gonna try that next time I head out. I'll clean the rifle tonight and fire a couple fouling shots before I shoot for groups with 5 minutes between each shot.
 
go back the range and shot a 5 shot group, this with really rule out anything fluke related to the 2 shots touching your seeing, take 1 shot every minute to avoid heat.
after you fill the cases with powder make sure that the powder level is close to the same in every case, this will rule out something fishy with your powder weights. Try to remember that your playing with a run of the mill hunting rifles and not a semi custom or custom rifle, or a target rifle.
It looks promising with your overall group size including the flier, another 2 or three shots of the same powder load at the same target will give you more insight, if they hit in an entirely new spot on the target then you don't really have just 1 flier that the 3 shot group is giving you but more of a semi round group that is more indicative of what rifles really shoot like with a particular powder/bullet combination.
 
Throttle_monkey1 said:
I'm gonna try that next time I head out. I'll clean the rifle tonight and fire a couple fouling shots before I shoot for groups with 5 minutes between each shot.
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How far away is your range? When I could shoot a 200m target from my back patio I would wake up in the morning and fire one shot, repeat for five days and get a true cold bore 5 round group.

Assuming you have other loads to work on for other rifles I would try a 3 round group waiting 1 hour between shots. If your groups are tight with a cold bore, but flyers happen with a warm barrel you know where the problem lies. 5 or 10 minutes is not near enough time to truly cool a barrel.

If it is the barrel wandering when warm you should first bed the action and ensure the barrel is floated, if shots still wander try a pressure point.
 
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