FTR .308 Fierce vs Chou Bros
- Thread starter MartyK2500
- Start date
Copied and pasted from non-members forum. Original post by moderator, page 6, second last post. Lots more there:
Joe and his business are banned from CGN for his business practices, dishonesty and deceptive nature of his business. My one and only dealing with him involved a degree of harassment and threatening similar to what the OP noted. Joe has a long history of this. He runs his business out of his basement and he runs on a shoe string. He got so bad over an order that he harassed my wife while I was deployed overseas. We had to get the police involved. All over an order worth $100. After dozens of similar incidents, and Joe creating false accounts to bump up his trader rating and "good deal" pitches, he was banned with extreme prejudice. To be totally honest, after the crap he put me through over a $100 order, I can't imagine how anyone would do business with the guy. He deserves to be run out of business. Anyone dealing with him is a fool. He has zero customer service and is a parasite.
Joe and his business are banned from CGN for his business practices, dishonesty and deceptive nature of his business. My one and only dealing with him involved a degree of harassment and threatening similar to what the OP noted. Joe has a long history of this. He runs his business out of his basement and he runs on a shoe string. He got so bad over an order that he harassed my wife while I was deployed overseas. We had to get the police involved. All over an order worth $100. After dozens of similar incidents, and Joe creating false accounts to bump up his trader rating and "good deal" pitches, he was banned with extreme prejudice. To be totally honest, after the crap he put me through over a $100 order, I can't imagine how anyone would do business with the guy. He deserves to be run out of business. Anyone dealing with him is a fool. He has zero customer service and is a parasite.
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Munkey1973
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Regina, SK
I was able to find an equipment list for the 2020 Berger south west nationals for reference.
actions
full article
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2020/05/2020-berger-sw-nationals-equipment-list/
Cheers
Trevor
No surprise that Kelby and Bernard are the most common.
But kind surprised to see that there were almost as many guys using a Savage as their were guys using a Remington.
I don't recall ever seeing Savage's at matches around here ... then again, not really keeping an eye open for them.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Cross the border and the Savage action is quite a common sight in FTR. A few years back, the Savage was the most common action in FTR at the Berger SW. It does the job, nothing fancy and handles dust/dirt really well. Some of the ranges I have shot at are nasty wrt to dust and dirt... and the 'sloppy' Savage works very well.
Pierce actions are/were also very popular.
Jerry
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Please forgive the newb question, but how much does an action really contribute to the final group size? I understand in dead calm air, a strong, perfectly machined action is better than a sloppy one, but given identical stocks, barrels and ammo quality, what would be the difference in group size between one of these $2000 actions mentioned in this thread, and a basic Savage?
I guess if you go shooting at a place like Rattlesnake in WA State, the wind will override any difference in action.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
If an action locks up tight and square, and firing pin is released consistently with consistent energy, WHAT the action is plays little role. Barrels matter far more in the accuracy dept.
1/4 MOA is 1/4 MOA...spend a little... spend alot, the target doesn't care. If the gear delivers consistent performance, the next most important thing is having gear that will get me across the finish line.
And this is a big reason you see so many Savage actions still. Ranges like Rattlesnake are horrid wrt to dust getting into your gear... and some actions don't respond well to dirt and function problems never improve your score.
I competed with a Savage SA and a Pierce Titanium FTR action.... 2 extremes in both cost and fancy. Was one better then the other? Not that I could see.
But I know which one I would use when range conditions were dirty.... and which one I would demo to the 'boys'....
Jerry
Thanks, furtaker. That word "consistency" really resonates with me.
I know that area around Rattlesnake really well, due to my 20+ trips through the area. There is a reason you see a million wind turbines in that area of Washington and Oregon.
Thinking out loud here, while trying to understand different variables: the Savage with the floating bolt head can help overcome "some" misalignment, but it won't help if things are really bad. I'm guessing using fireformed brass would help mitigate some bolt/action alignment issues, regardless of the action brand?
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Alignment start at the receiver surface the lugs push against.. then to the bolt face... action threads... chamber and barrel bore line. This is what custom actions and gunsmiths sort out so that when things goes bang, it all goes in the same direction.
The floating bolt head solves ALOT of problems common in action manf of old. Nowadays with CNC manf, some factory actions are quite straight out of the box so work well. Add in the floating bolt head and some designs just work very well with little to no input from a gunsmith.
However, you can still find factory actions where these things are not well aligned AND if you have a solid bolt head bolt action, the chamber is not aligned.. the ammo is not supported true. In this instance, fireforming doesnt help that much cause you are just forming the brass cockeyed
If it is straight, it stays straight. If not straight, fix it cause nothing done to the brass will help
Jerry
The floating bolt head solves ALOT of problems common in action manf of old. Nowadays with CNC manf, some factory actions are quite straight out of the box so work well. Add in the floating bolt head and some designs just work very well with little to no input from a gunsmith.
However, you can still find factory actions where these things are not well aligned AND if you have a solid bolt head bolt action, the chamber is not aligned.. the ammo is not supported true. In this instance, fireforming doesnt help that much cause you are just forming the brass cockeyed
If it is straight, it stays straight. If not straight, fix it cause nothing done to the brass will help
Jerry
The majority of those Barnards are sling rifles.
What shocked me was the amount css stocks. I know sling guys like them. I run a barnard in one, But there was at least 10 being run by F-class guys.
Op post a pick of the rifle you end up going with!
Factory vs Custom
tolerances and alignment
Custom actions have
squared lugs 100% contact.
actions threads are squared aligned
bolt and raceway have tighter tolerances
proper firing pin fall and protrusion with appropriate spring weight
firing pin hole is proper dia
STRONGER ACTION
You can get a factory action blue printed to improve all the above, but it will cost nearly the same as a custom action.
Conversely you can buy a custom action that MAY need some tweaking but that is not the norm
Proper alignment and ignition will give you consistent results down range so you can focus on competing an not your equipment
Cheers
Trevor
