Full length resize bulging problem, with pic!

Mike_R

Mike_R

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ok, I did it. I went out and bought the Hornady LNL AP setup (thanks to acrashb and his great article). So far so good, I have everything cleaned and setup as best I can. I have not yet put any powder into it, or primers, I am still screwing with the resize die, although the rest are set up.

I am reloading 9mm, and am not sure if this is normal, but after full length resizing my brass, I notice on the bottom of the brass it is still dull where the die has not touched it. I know it is likely impossible for the die to get all the way down, but I have never noticed this before on other peoples reloads, and it is really noticeable on my resized brass. See picture for details.

img_6353.jpg


Yes, I know some of them are expanded too much, I was setting up the expander... I will fix them. So is this normal? I have the die touching (about 1/4 turn back) the shell plate (as I hear carbide should not touch), but even when it touches this is as close as it gets.

Also, and you can tell in the pictures, the cases appear bulged at the bottom, and they are. At first I thought it was an illusion, but no, they are bulged no doubt.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Mike
 
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I always adjust my expanding die to only flare the case mouth enough so that the bullet doesn't get scraped.

Cases last far longer with minimal expanding.:)

I have also experienced the bulging at the bottom of the case in some 9mm cases. Sometimes lowering the die will minimize this. If the cartridge fits the chamber of the gun without hanging up you will be ok.
You can check the seating by removing the barrel & dropping a loaded round into the chamber. It should have the case rim level with the barrel hood.

Hope this helps.
 
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Rod B said:
You can check the seating by removing the barrel & dropping a loaded round into the chamber. It should have the case rim level with the barrel hood.
Hope this helps.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice on the expander, I have since re-adjusted it to just prevent the bullets from being scraped. I now have one more problem... my gun is currently in BC awaiting transfer to me. I will likely not see it for another 6 or 8 weeks!

That also means I have to wait before loading any live rounds, since I cannot work up a safe load, and test my rounds. This is going to be a loooong wait... at least I can play with my dies, and tumble brass! Perhaps figure out why it bulges the cases?
If it will not chamber in my gun, then what?

Mike
 
All my dies leave a "ring" at the bottom. I beleive that this slight "bulge" is there to cause friction so you casing fits snuggly into the chamber so it will not fall out and is already "seated" for the expansion caused by firing. It has never caused any problems in my varied reloads.
 
I have my die set so it is touching the shellplace on my Dillon 550B. I am using Dillon dies. Seems to me you should set you die to just touch the shell plate. Your dies should resize lower than your pics indicate but as has been said, if your cases load ok even after several hundred rounds then it really doesn't matter. The "bulge" you see is nothing more than where the case was not resized.

The Lee resizing die will size a tad lower and is excellent for getting rid of the Glock bulge found on .40cal cases FYI. Will size lower on the 9MM as well.

Take Care

Bob
 
I am not an expert on the 9mm but if I am correct, they are not a straight case but have a slight taper to them . ( The base is supposed to be slightly larger ) .
I think ( IMO ) the the " bulge " at the bottom is part of the die design to not make the case too small at the base . The carbide in the die is just a small ring inside .

You might want to consider buying an electronic caliper ( usually on sale at Can. Tire or Princess Auto ) and compare your resized cases to the actual 9mm case specs.
 
Wow, thanks for the great info guys! I love this forum!

I cannot imagine trying to reload in the old days (before the internet) with only the manuals and a phone to assist in setup. And yes, I was alive before the internet became popular, I used to spend a lot of time on BBS's at 2400 Baud. :>

I tried to lower the die, but it was as low as it could go. So that ring is normal, good to know.

Also, I know the case is tapered, but I am surprised to see the bulge of material at the bottom of the case. I have the calipers, and measured the case. The top tapers even to until just before the color change, then it expands out 2 thousandths, then back in 2 thousands again before the bottom of the case.

I guess I really need my pistol to arrive before I can do anything for sure. Maybe I will get a hold of a friends 9mm and see if it will chamber the case. Though, looking at the bulge in the cases, it seems like it is not right.

Thanks again,
Mike
 
Winnipeg Toymaker said:
All my dies leave a "ring" at the bottom. I beleive that this slight "bulge" is there to cause friction so you casing fits snuggly into the chamber so it will not fall out and is already "seated" for the expansion caused by firing. It has never caused any problems in my varied reloads.
Click to expand...

I'm sure that's all it is. I just have to keep telling myself that. :)

I have too much time on my hands now, and need to find something else to focus on. Anyone need brass tumbled and sized only?? I have great rates for 9mm and .223! (mostly joking...)

Mike
 
From what I see on the picture, it look like your resizing die does not go all the way down at the bottom of your brass. Like what Canuck said, buy a Lee Factory Crimp Die (FCD). Install the Lee FCD at the last station of your progressive machine. What FCD does to your loaded round is it tapers the bell of your brass - you can regulate the amount of taper you want for your loaded rounds and most of all it further re-size your rounds all the way down to the bottom of your brass. Try it, it will take care of the remaining bottom part of your brass. FCD is ideal for Glock fired brass. I use FCD for all my pistol rounds.

Good luck and Reload safely. :)
 
If you rdie is down as far as it will go, and that isn't surprising then you will be fine. All my 9MM cases show that ring. Completely normal. some does go down a little further than others.

nognog: I am no fan of the Lee FCD for straight walled cases. I load lead and I want my bullets to be 1/1000 over what jacketed bullets mesure out at minimum. For example the .45acp lead bullets are .452 vs .451 for jacketed bullets. All your FCD does is size down the kead bullet to .451 which is exactly what I don't want. Same for the 9MM. My lead bullets are sized .357, 2/100th over jacketed. They feed just fine and are extremely accurate with no leading. Size them down with a Lee FCD to have a smooth case and you get key holing and poor accuracy. The FCD won't solve his situation as it is his sizing die that isn't quite sizing as low as some dies do.

Mike measure a case before you resize it where the ring is appearing and I suspect it will be the same size after you run it through your press.

Take care

Bob
 
Canuck44 said:
If you rdie is down as far as it will go, and that isn't surprising then you will be fine. All my 9MM cases show that ring. Completely normal. some does go down a little further than others.
Click to expand...

It must be normal, as I see no possible way for my rdie to go any lower on the brass. Thanks for the info. :)

Canuck44 said:
Mike measure a case before you resize it where the ring is appearing and I suspect it will be the same size after you run it through your press.
Click to expand...

I will do that when I get home, and post my results. I might even take a picture and post the sizes on the pic! Depends on how much time I have.

Mike
 
I beleive that this slight "bulge" is there to cause friction so you casing fits snuggly into the chamber so it will not fall out and is already "seated" for the expansion caused by firing.
Click to expand...
Absolutely not. Loaded ammo MUST drop freely into the chamber under its own weight. The mouth of the case stops the forwards movement.

The "Glock Buldge" is caused by the design of the chamber, it is "unsupported" at the bottom because the feed ramp is cut too deep for the design of the brass. The case head is not fully in the barrel of any firearm when its fired, some of it sticks out but the "web" of the case is partially inside the chamber. This thick web is strong and requires no support when fired. The Glock barrel feed ramp is cut so deep is passes the depth of the web and a buldge occurs when fired. The "Glock Buldge" must be resized to ensure good ammo. Your die will not ensure this.

Fix the die or get a custom die and have no worries.

Canuck44, take your FCD and fix it. They work well when customized to your specific size need. What C44 has noted is that brass rebounds when squeezed but lead does not. If you squeeze the loaded round too much, the brass will rebound larger but the lead will not. This means you can have a round with so little neck tension that will literally fall out by itself. Believe it or not, its common to have bullets stick inside the FCD if its grimy and too small for your bullet and brass. Should see the look on your face when that happens the first time. :eek: For 40 and 45 I push them completely through a FCD I sized to my needs then reload them. Shooting IPSC, I have not had a single jam since I started doing this, except for twice on the same mag with very weak springs, fixed that with new springs. Most jams I see are caused by ammo that has a buldge.

Yes, the 9mm case is tapered.

Cheers,
Rob
 
Pei Rob

"Canuck44, take your FCD and fix it. "

Well first off I don't have one. Secondly, when loading lead bullets sized correctly the case will bulge bue to the fact the lead bullet has a bigger diameter than a jacketed bullet. In, a .45acp cartridge the difference is 1/1000". Running a cartridge through a Lee FCD smooths out the bulge. Assuming the brass remains the same thikness and the bulge caused by the bullet being of greater diameter there is only one thing that has been reduced in size and that is the bullet.

In MIke's case, the 9MM case is completely normal. The case hasn't bulged it just hasn't been sized down because the sizing die cannot size down to the base of the case. This spring I have loaded over 7,000 9MM cases, all of which have somewhat the same likeness. All, save a couple of thousand that will be shot off this month have run through eight different 9MM guns like poop through a goose.

Mike Lee resizing dies (Not the FCD) will size down somewhat lower but will not reach the bottom of the case. To my knowledge none do.

Tale Care

Bob
 
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Dillon makes a case "chamber checker" (cant remember the real name ) I use it instead of using the barrel of my 9MM to verify the rounds are going to freely fit the chamber....TSE carries them as well as P&Dand probably many others
 
You could get an EGW undersized die that will size lower on the brass.

Rod B:

You lose the brass long before the neck will split. You only need to flare slightly.
 
"Canuck44, take your FCD and fix it. "

Well first off I don't have one. Secondly, when loading lead bullets sized correctly the case will bulge bue to the fact the lead bullet has a bigger diameter than a jacketed bullet. In, a .45acp cartridge the difference is 1.100". Running a cartridge through a Lee FCD smooths out the bulge. Assuming the brass remains the same thikness and the bulge caused by the bullet being of greater diameter there is only one thing that has been reduced in size and that is the bullet.
Click to expand...


Thats what I'm saying, except for your number, not sure what you mean there. I don't mean to point this out to you Canuck44, just a general knowledge thing for everybody that hasn't experienced it yet. I like to modify the die to fit properly and through size the straight walled cases like ammo manufacturers do, then reload them. Tapered cases such as the 9mm are roll sized.

x2 RePete, egw die


Cheers
 
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What I am saying is there is nothing wrong with the bulge you get when you load lead bullets. You want the lead bullets to remain as you sized them ie. .452. Sizing them down, particularily in the 8MM can be a major factor in poor accuracy and leading.

I should also add 9MM barrels are notorious for being of different diameters. Guns can run from .354 to .356. Using my cast bullets for example, I sixe them .357. Yes I get a slight bulge in the case but they feed just fine. With the exeception of my S&W M&P I experience no leading using a soft lube. I attribute the leading in my M&P to a rather rough barrel. Hopefully over time this should self correct.

Edit Note. That should read 1/1000: rather than 1.100". I edited my post.

Take Care

Bob
 
+1 with PEI Rob on his 'Glock bulge' analysis.

I had a major reloading problem with 1911 in .38 Super and a ramped barrel, where the slight bulge on the base of the case would cause the infrequent failure to feed (just a bit of an annoyance when shooting IPSC). The culprit was the flaring of the mouth of the Dillon die - while the belling makes it easier to insert the brass into the die, it wouldn't size the base of the round sufficiently. Solution was to grind off a bit of the tapered base of the die (tricky with the carbide die!) and seat it as low as it would go to the baseplate.

I also made sure that match ammo dropped freely into a chamber checker (or the stripped barrel if I forgot the checker at home). Sticky ammo made it into the practice bin, 'cause if it stuck going in clean, my buddy Murphy would make sure to only load it into a dirty chamber.

For what it's worth, in .38 Super, I only shot jacketed, in .45 ACP I only shot lead.
 
Well, I think that settles it, and I am not going to worry about it.

I measured my brass, before and after sizing, and there is a slight larger diameter at the bottom where the die cannot reach, but I borrow a friends 9mm P1 and it drops right into the chamber easily. I also have some factory rounds here, and they both seat to the same depth in the chamber without any fuss.

With that settled, I have yet to get out to the range and try my first rounds. I did the usual work up, and can't wait to get them to the range so I can prove my load, and make 5000 of them! :)

Thanks for the info as always,
Mike
 
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