Full Length Sizing Problem

Ganderite

Ganderite

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I just had an unusual reloading problem. I had a Savage re-barreled with a cut-down old match barrel. It is now a 19” rifle, with a match 308 chamber. Bullets set to best accuracy OAL will also now fit the magazine.

But I was getting 20% misfires. I was using some CCI primers dated 1995, so next time I loaded some new CCI primers. No change. Not a primer problem.

So I measured the headspace of my sized brass. My chamber is +2 thou. The cases are short - -10 thou.
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So the primers are not getting hit hard enough. Too far away from the bolt face. Since it is a Savage, it is easy to unscrew the firing pin one-quarter turn and lengthen it a bit.

But why are the cases coming out short? I will have to see if a different shell holder solves the problem. Or try a different sizing die.

My box of ammo had a bunch of rounds that did not go bang. How to make the cases fire and stretch to proper length?

I took the dud ammo and an equal number of empty cases. I pulled the bullets and dumped the powder into fired cases, and then knocked out the dud primers and re-primed with Federal primers. They are much more sensitive. Then dumped the powder back into the cases and re-seated the pulled bullets.

They all fired. Now I have 50 round boxes of cases fired in this rifle.

Next step is to figure out how to FL size them properly.

I know neck sizing would solve the immediate problem, but I can’t carry on with a FL sizing procedure that over-sizes the cases.

Solved: I checked the press and I had some random shell holder I had been using for 45ACP. As soon as I changed to a real 308 shell holder, the head space went from -10 to +1 thou.
 
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I'f you're not using a small base die to resize brass fired in a factory savage chamber you won't size the web of the case down enough to fit into a match chamber, and if by luck you do, as you've done, you will likely push the shoulder way back and create the issue your having, when not using a small base die and gradually sizing until my brass fit the new chamber I was shocked to see that I had pushed the shoulders back 45 thou to get the web to fit, most loaded cases had missfires and the only cure to save my brass and get full life out of it was to load it with a 20 thou jam to keep the case head on the boltface so the shoulder moved forward and the cases did not stretch out in the body resulting in thinning of the case walls and later case head sepperation

match chambers are tight.....get a small base sizing die, or at least a small base redding shoulder body bump die
 
What I would do is use a plus .010" Competition Shell-holder, but I already have them so costs me nothing. You'd even keep your hard cam-over for consistency.

You can also just back the die off until continued firing makes chambering hard then screw it in incrementally until the empty case chambers with the desired feel. Or until they measure what you want. Bush-league, but millions of guys are doing it.
 
Dogleg said:
What I would do is use a plus .010" Competition Shell-holder, but I already have them so costs me nothing. You'd even keep your hard cam-over for consistency.

You can also just back the die off until continued firing makes chambering hard then screw it in incrementally until the empty case chambers with the desired feel. Or until they measure what you want. Bush-league, but millions of guys are doing it.
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This - is definitely a "work around", if you are into higher volumes - is the whole point of a SAAMI standard - that chambers, dies, shell holders, etc. all work together - but is not always the case. I actually do the second part in the above post - most all my reloads - I set my die using the rifle chamber that they are going to be fired in - I do not use intermediary measuring devices - it fits properly, or it does not, and I am responsible for what I produce - is why I choose to use my chamber as my "gauge" - I know where "too long" is, and can work out any "bump" from the 14 threads per inch on the die - I do not know or really care about those actual numbers - makes no difference that I can tell in my shooting - and I do re-set up the dies each time that I reload for that rifle. Others may have more rifles to care about than I do, so my solutions may not work for them.
 
Other solution would be to load long and jam into the rifling, that would put the case head tight to the bolt face
 
I re-sized the fired cases with a +3 thou shell holder. Sized cases are kissing the chamber shoulder. The rifle headspace is +2 thou. My other 308 target rifles are -1, because they have to shoot issue military ammo, too.

Loading long to push the case head against the bolt face is a good idea to fire form the brass, if I use the Federal primer. With standard primers, the firing pin drives the bullet into the rifling, softening the blow. This can actually cause misfires.

Moral of the story - pay attention to the shell holder.
 
Ganderite,
Glad you found your sizing/head-spacing issue. Have you had a chance to load and shoot the fireformed cases to see if that cures the misfire issue?

Lengthening the firing pin only helps if protrusion wasn't enough in the first place which is quite rare. Typical is .055-.065, but only a portion of that gets used before the cup and ensueing pressure stop the drop anyway. Actually; a shorter pin hits harder because the striker travels farther and hits the primer faster and the good old energy = mass X velocity squared formula applies to strikers as much as bullets.

I think the real head-line is Federal primers fired and two batches of CCI primers gave misfires. ;)
 
Guess I have to start keeping better track of shell holders and not just grab whichever one seems to fit the brass I'm about to load, then. Always something new to learn!
 
Potashminer said:
This - is definitely a "work around", if you are into higher volumes - is the whole point of a SAAMI standard - that chambers, dies, shell holders, etc. all work together - but is not always the case. I actually do the second part in the above post - most all my reloads - I set my die using the rifle chamber that they are going to be fired in - I do not use intermediary measuring devices - it fits properly, or it does not, and I am responsible for what I produce - is why I choose to use my chamber as my "gauge" - I know where "too long" is, and can work out any "bump" from the 14 threads per inch on the die - I do not know or really care about those actual numbers - makes no difference that I can tell in my shooting - and I do re-set up the dies each time that I reload for that rifle. Others may have more rifles to care about than I do, so my solutions may not work for them.
Click to expand...

Not only is it an unnecessary workaround, but sizing the brass that much is really overworking it, and you will probably see a dramatic reduction in brass life.
 
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