Hi Everyone!
I just read the following post from the forum associated with surplusrifle.com and was curious to see if the opinions offered were in sinc with that of some of the more knowledgable collectors here. It paints a gloomy picture, but on the other hand perhaps we Canadians will still have some opportunities that are unavailable to the US market (i.e. our Norc M14s, Tokarev rifles on occasion, or perhaps even some cheap Garands in the future if the US Govt does not allow parts kits into their country). In terms of what's still available out there, what would those of you who are knowledgable of the Canadian market suggest that we focus on?
In the past three years or so I've gotten an RC Mauser, K31, Russian M38, Yugo M59 SKS, a second Norc SKS, two M305s, Norc 1911A1, an M91/30, Yugo Tokarev in 9mm and CZ858-2 from a number of dealers when they've had them in stock. I've had some luck with some of the commercial Swedish rifles available from Tradeex and plan to use them for my main hunting battery. I've also managed a couple of other milsurps at reasonable prices from individuals or dealers (i.e. $200 for an M96, $225 for a 96/11, an M95 Carbine and Rifle for $210, a Turk 93 for $140 shipped and a #4 and two #5 Enfields for $200 and $250 and $350 respectively, plus a few others). It has taken lots of searching or luck to find these later deals however, as it's been years since we've gotten many fresh supplies of quality milsurps. Might it be a good idea to try to pick up a couple more Mosin varients in the next year or so, or are there any other prospects for reasonably priced milsurps over the horizon. I'm fairly satisfied with what I've acquired and want to focus more on shooting than collecting for a change, but still thought that I'd ask for people's opinions on the future.
Cheers,
Frank
******************************************************
Well until the BATF starts approving form 6s for shipments of any quantity which they haven't been doing for almost a year now then nothing will be comming in, now combine the BATF dragging their feet (election year folks and its looking very much like it will be going to the democrats which means the BATF need to make sure they look good their future funding depends on it) combined with the UN competing with USA buyers for lots, add in the Euro shadowing the Dollar and its simply not cost effective right now...... guns that last year were being offered at $5 ea are now STARTING at $40 ea now multiply that times well lets use the Century Mosin deal as an example 63K guns, ya don't get to pick and choose if the lot offered is 63K guns you must buy all 63K guns its not like buyin at Big5, well are you ready to pay $350 for that same M44 ya got last year for $69? because thats what the importer will have to sell for in order to recoup his costs in the current arms market....... if Hillary or Osama get elected then ya can just forget about anything comming in period at any price..... for the last year the only thing thats gotten approved is shotguns and straight out commercial sporting guns and ammo with a few parts sets but nothing to write home about... and very expensive considering they are minus barrels......... this is why ya have seen zero change in the inventories offered by importers, the dealers can come up with a few here and there as importers drag out stuff thats been sitting in warehouses etc...
My source, partner I've been working with em for almost 20 years, I was actually getting faxes from several complaining about the latest ridiculesly denied form 6 etc... until I posted several notices advising collectors that we would rather they not buy guns from us but instead buy up ammo wherever they could get the best deals... this was back before all the 8 mm and 7.62x54 started gettin scarce etc... got shouted down by the company shills and they all got p#ssed off at me for lettin folks know what was happening etc... cause they can't sell guns they are stuck with if there is no cheap ammo etc... anyhow everyone kept up with ohhh theres tons of the surplus ammo its not getting tight etc... and I stopped gettin e-mails and faxes but......... all ya needa do is take a look around, everyone still has the same stagnant inventories etc.. we are not getting any of our form 6s approved either nobody is... but we do still get offers to bid on lots for ammo or guns........ prices are way to high even if we can get a form 6 approved ya'll will need to be willing to pay $0.80 per round for surplus 8 mm mauser (an example) for us to even begin to be able to bring it in, a few months ago there was a guy who had bought a cr#p load of Yugo 7.62x39 and some other ammo, some mausers etc.. outa Bosnia it was already sitting off the east coast when his importer (a very large outfit that all of us deal with) failed to come through with being able to get a form6 approved.... he was willing to give up a very large percentage just to get the stuff in before he lost it all to US Customs it was posted all over the net for a week not a single importer was willing to try bringing it in and he had to sell the entire shipment at quite a loss........
Ya'll only got two things that can change this current situation #1 get a candidate from the libertarian side elected which we all know isn't going to happen (republicans aren't going to help gun owners Bush has done more in the last 4 years than Clinton ever did) #2 get rid of the UN #3 get the value of the dollar way up above the Euro because the way it stands right now the sellers know how much these things sell for here in the states and they want a larger part of it so either collectors start payin more so that importers can compete in the small arms market or....... take a look at the inventory Century is pushing latelly........ going more and more towards commercial goods than milsurp...... we have enough stuff aside from ammo to keep milsurps ie; mausers and mosins available for a couple more years but the new trend is USA made semi auto coldwar era builds.......... ALL done here stateside from parts that have already been imported or commercial for export "sporters" the new focus is on semi autos as theres not enough money to justify the overhead to import WWI WWII bolt guns.......... there are still alot of SKSs that could be imported but #1 the importer must get a form 6 approved for large quantities #2 the buyers needa forget about the days of the $70 milsurp and commit to paying $200 for shooters and up around $300 for unissued etc... which without the cheap ammo they won't do...... the days of the cheap milsurp ammo are done ...........
so who will be first to pre buy mausers at $400 ea for shooter grade guns (need at least 40,000 pre-orders to even bid BTW) knowing ya will be having to buy commercial ammo or start reloading? there will be coldwar era semi autos (which are still cost effective to sell) available right up till another ban gets passed...... so the best bet if ya wanna stick with bolt guns is going to be waiting to see what is in the back of warehouses or the secondary market ie; used guns focusing on filling empty holes in collections from the gun shows or just enjoying the ones ya have........ or ya can get full blown into cold war era semi autos Myself, I'm blackballed now from most of my old connections but it really doesn't matter anymore...... I've pretty much retired as of this month, I've spent 24 years in the milsurp industri and its time to start working on my museum, it was fun while it lasted though! One option is to focus on replacing marginal guns with higher quality examples as sold by Family finishes and firearms as well as others who deal in higher end goods..... as far as those companies that don't want folks seein any problem....... solutions easy, all ya gotta do is show all of us what ya can accomplish and actually bring in some fresh inventory while maintaining the price ranges collectors are accustomed to paying as opposed to 3-4 times more, do that and ya'll have shown I'm full of it We will all be watching for those inventories to change in the mean while............ until that happens please just refrain from repeating the deniles of a few months ago, ya'll were told the same thing back then and ya know what......... I for one am still waiting to see all that new inventory comming in so.... just save your breath till ya got some results to show....
I just read the following post from the forum associated with surplusrifle.com and was curious to see if the opinions offered were in sinc with that of some of the more knowledgable collectors here. It paints a gloomy picture, but on the other hand perhaps we Canadians will still have some opportunities that are unavailable to the US market (i.e. our Norc M14s, Tokarev rifles on occasion, or perhaps even some cheap Garands in the future if the US Govt does not allow parts kits into their country). In terms of what's still available out there, what would those of you who are knowledgable of the Canadian market suggest that we focus on?
In the past three years or so I've gotten an RC Mauser, K31, Russian M38, Yugo M59 SKS, a second Norc SKS, two M305s, Norc 1911A1, an M91/30, Yugo Tokarev in 9mm and CZ858-2 from a number of dealers when they've had them in stock. I've had some luck with some of the commercial Swedish rifles available from Tradeex and plan to use them for my main hunting battery. I've also managed a couple of other milsurps at reasonable prices from individuals or dealers (i.e. $200 for an M96, $225 for a 96/11, an M95 Carbine and Rifle for $210, a Turk 93 for $140 shipped and a #4 and two #5 Enfields for $200 and $250 and $350 respectively, plus a few others). It has taken lots of searching or luck to find these later deals however, as it's been years since we've gotten many fresh supplies of quality milsurps. Might it be a good idea to try to pick up a couple more Mosin varients in the next year or so, or are there any other prospects for reasonably priced milsurps over the horizon. I'm fairly satisfied with what I've acquired and want to focus more on shooting than collecting for a change, but still thought that I'd ask for people's opinions on the future.
Cheers,
Frank
******************************************************
Well until the BATF starts approving form 6s for shipments of any quantity which they haven't been doing for almost a year now then nothing will be comming in, now combine the BATF dragging their feet (election year folks and its looking very much like it will be going to the democrats which means the BATF need to make sure they look good their future funding depends on it) combined with the UN competing with USA buyers for lots, add in the Euro shadowing the Dollar and its simply not cost effective right now...... guns that last year were being offered at $5 ea are now STARTING at $40 ea now multiply that times well lets use the Century Mosin deal as an example 63K guns, ya don't get to pick and choose if the lot offered is 63K guns you must buy all 63K guns its not like buyin at Big5, well are you ready to pay $350 for that same M44 ya got last year for $69? because thats what the importer will have to sell for in order to recoup his costs in the current arms market....... if Hillary or Osama get elected then ya can just forget about anything comming in period at any price..... for the last year the only thing thats gotten approved is shotguns and straight out commercial sporting guns and ammo with a few parts sets but nothing to write home about... and very expensive considering they are minus barrels......... this is why ya have seen zero change in the inventories offered by importers, the dealers can come up with a few here and there as importers drag out stuff thats been sitting in warehouses etc...
My source, partner I've been working with em for almost 20 years, I was actually getting faxes from several complaining about the latest ridiculesly denied form 6 etc... until I posted several notices advising collectors that we would rather they not buy guns from us but instead buy up ammo wherever they could get the best deals... this was back before all the 8 mm and 7.62x54 started gettin scarce etc... got shouted down by the company shills and they all got p#ssed off at me for lettin folks know what was happening etc... cause they can't sell guns they are stuck with if there is no cheap ammo etc... anyhow everyone kept up with ohhh theres tons of the surplus ammo its not getting tight etc... and I stopped gettin e-mails and faxes but......... all ya needa do is take a look around, everyone still has the same stagnant inventories etc.. we are not getting any of our form 6s approved either nobody is... but we do still get offers to bid on lots for ammo or guns........ prices are way to high even if we can get a form 6 approved ya'll will need to be willing to pay $0.80 per round for surplus 8 mm mauser (an example) for us to even begin to be able to bring it in, a few months ago there was a guy who had bought a cr#p load of Yugo 7.62x39 and some other ammo, some mausers etc.. outa Bosnia it was already sitting off the east coast when his importer (a very large outfit that all of us deal with) failed to come through with being able to get a form6 approved.... he was willing to give up a very large percentage just to get the stuff in before he lost it all to US Customs it was posted all over the net for a week not a single importer was willing to try bringing it in and he had to sell the entire shipment at quite a loss........
Ya'll only got two things that can change this current situation #1 get a candidate from the libertarian side elected which we all know isn't going to happen (republicans aren't going to help gun owners Bush has done more in the last 4 years than Clinton ever did) #2 get rid of the UN #3 get the value of the dollar way up above the Euro because the way it stands right now the sellers know how much these things sell for here in the states and they want a larger part of it so either collectors start payin more so that importers can compete in the small arms market or....... take a look at the inventory Century is pushing latelly........ going more and more towards commercial goods than milsurp...... we have enough stuff aside from ammo to keep milsurps ie; mausers and mosins available for a couple more years but the new trend is USA made semi auto coldwar era builds.......... ALL done here stateside from parts that have already been imported or commercial for export "sporters" the new focus is on semi autos as theres not enough money to justify the overhead to import WWI WWII bolt guns.......... there are still alot of SKSs that could be imported but #1 the importer must get a form 6 approved for large quantities #2 the buyers needa forget about the days of the $70 milsurp and commit to paying $200 for shooters and up around $300 for unissued etc... which without the cheap ammo they won't do...... the days of the cheap milsurp ammo are done ...........
so who will be first to pre buy mausers at $400 ea for shooter grade guns (need at least 40,000 pre-orders to even bid BTW) knowing ya will be having to buy commercial ammo or start reloading? there will be coldwar era semi autos (which are still cost effective to sell) available right up till another ban gets passed...... so the best bet if ya wanna stick with bolt guns is going to be waiting to see what is in the back of warehouses or the secondary market ie; used guns focusing on filling empty holes in collections from the gun shows or just enjoying the ones ya have........ or ya can get full blown into cold war era semi autos Myself, I'm blackballed now from most of my old connections but it really doesn't matter anymore...... I've pretty much retired as of this month, I've spent 24 years in the milsurp industri and its time to start working on my museum, it was fun while it lasted though! One option is to focus on replacing marginal guns with higher quality examples as sold by Family finishes and firearms as well as others who deal in higher end goods..... as far as those companies that don't want folks seein any problem....... solutions easy, all ya gotta do is show all of us what ya can accomplish and actually bring in some fresh inventory while maintaining the price ranges collectors are accustomed to paying as opposed to 3-4 times more, do that and ya'll have shown I'm full of it We will all be watching for those inventories to change in the mean while............ until that happens please just refrain from repeating the deniles of a few months ago, ya'll were told the same thing back then and ya know what......... I for one am still waiting to see all that new inventory comming in so.... just save your breath till ya got some results to show....
