Just bought myself an H&R M1 Garand and took it to the range for the first time. Bought some proper American Eagle "for M1 Garand" ammo for it. With the first shot, the gun jammed. The bolt did not cycle and I could not remove the casing in the chamber by racking the bolt. I had to take it apart and ram a rod down the bore to remove the spent casing. I fired one more shot but this time the extractor ripped apart the rim of the casing and again the casing was jammed stuck in the chamber. I think I have a head spacing problem. How would this be fixed? Do I need a new barrel?
Garand head spacing problem...
- Thread starter Teppo87
- Start date
This doesn't indicate a headspacing problem. Sounds like a dirty or pitted chamber which is preventing easy case extraction. You need to get a Garand combo tool with the bronze chamber brush and give the chamber a good scrubbing. If you can't get hold of a Garand tool try a stiff bristle bottle brush with that will fit the chamber tightly. Bend the wire handle into an L shape and give it a scrubbing with bore cleaner. Wipe clean and check for pitting in the chamber. If the chamber is badly pitted the barrel will need replacement.
Does the bolt close fully with op rod spring pressure when you chamber a round?
Does the bolt close fully with op rod spring pressure when you chamber a round?
The bolt has no trouble fully chambering a round and it has no trouble extracting a dummy round or a live round without firing it. Its only after firing the round that it gets stuck in the chamber. The casing had a slight bulge to it, so I'm thinking that the inside of the chamber is wider than it should be.
A pic of the fired case showing the bulge would be useful. A cahamber which is deformed or out of round to the extent that it would cause cases to stick would be a rare occurence.
Sticky cases and extractors tearing thru the case head are normally an indication of a fouled or corroded chamber in a semi auto. In addition to scubbing and checking the chamber for pitting you should also check the gas plug to make sure that it is tight and that the inside face isn't cracked. Either of these things will cause gas leakage which affects the power available to cycle the action and extract the case after firing.
Sticky cases and extractors tearing thru the case head are normally an indication of a fouled or corroded chamber in a semi auto. In addition to scubbing and checking the chamber for pitting you should also check the gas plug to make sure that it is tight and that the inside face isn't cracked. Either of these things will cause gas leakage which affects the power available to cycle the action and extract the case after firing.
Listen to what PURPLE sez, friend. On malfunctions with semi-autos, he is THE man..... and he will NOT steer you wrong.
He has told you exactly what I would have said, except that I would add simple caveat: it is highly unlikely that ANY Garand has "headspace" problems if in original condition. The original manufacturing tolerances on all Garand parts were held so very close that there was 100% interchangeability of all critical parts WITHOUT the necessity of gauging.
John Garand was a TOOLMAKER first, a gun designer second. Good point to remember.
Good luck.
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He has told you exactly what I would have said, except that I would add simple caveat: it is highly unlikely that ANY Garand has "headspace" problems if in original condition. The original manufacturing tolerances on all Garand parts were held so very close that there was 100% interchangeability of all critical parts WITHOUT the necessity of gauging.
John Garand was a TOOLMAKER first, a gun designer second. Good point to remember.
Good luck.
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PURPLE and SMELLIE have given you good advice. If the extractor ripped off the rim of the cartridge, it is highly likely that the problem is in the chamber of the rifle, not the headspace.
When a cartridge is fired, the brass case expands to stick to the walls. Being brass, after the walls of the chamber stop outward expansion of the case, the case then contracts very slightly, and should easily extract from a clean chamber.
If your chamber is dirty, has been marked up, or is pitted or ringed, then the brass in the case expands into these areas, and "locks" itself into the pits, crud, or deformity. The system operated all right when you fired the rifle, and there was enough pressure to force the bolt backwards to rip off the rim of the case, but the crud or damage inside the chamber kept the case inside it.
This is not really a headspace problem. However, you might have another one. If there was enough pressure for the system to operate and rip off the rim of the case, there was a lot of resistance to the force of the bolt and operating rod being forced back by the gas pressure. This MIGHT have bent the operating rod of your M-1 Garand slightly out of line.
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PURPLE and SMELLIE have given you good advice. If the extractor ripped off the rim of the cartridge, it is highly likely that the problem is in the chamber of the rifle, not the headspace.
When a cartridge is fired, the brass case expands to stick to the walls. Being brass, after the walls of the chamber stop outward expansion of the case, the case then contracts very slightly, and should easily extract from a clean chamber.
If your chamber is dirty, has been marked up, or is pitted or ringed, then the brass in the case expands into these areas, and "locks" itself into the pits, crud, or deformity. The system operated all right when you fired the rifle, and there was enough pressure to force the bolt backwards to rip off the rim of the case, but the crud or damage inside the chamber kept the case inside it.
This is not really a headspace problem. However, you might have another one. If there was enough pressure for the system to operate and rip off the rim of the case, there was a lot of resistance to the force of the bolt and operating rod being forced back by the gas pressure. This MIGHT have bent the operating rod of your M-1 Garand slightly out of line.
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A clean and unpitted chamber is absolutely critical for proper functioning of a semi-auto. The reason for this is because the dwell time of the closed bolt is extremely short after the round has fired and the extraction cycle begins.
As indicated, when a round is fired the case expands against the walls of the chamber and then cools and contracts to enable extraction. In a semi-auto there is minimal time for the cooling/contraction to occur so extraction begins with the brass in a hot and still expanded state. If there is an accumulation of powder residue or fouling of any type in the chamber the hot case will tend to adhere to this. In the case of a pitted or scored chamber the problem is even worse where the brass actually imprints itself into the pits or marks and resists extraction to a greater extent. This is why training in proper cleaning & maintenance is essential. In the case of the Garand, M14, and M16 rifles, it was found necessary to issue the troops with a bronze brush to keep chambers clean and free of fouling and prevent stoppages in the field.
Extraction from a dirty /fouled chamber is less of a problem in a bolt gun as the fired case has more time to contract and cool prior to extraction. Also, most bolt guns feature more positive extraction by reason of the greater camming power of the bolt.
Poor extraction due to a fouled or pitted chamber can also be a problem in a civvy semi-auto and the old Remington 740/742 was one of the worst offenders. I have seen stoppages in a number of these with stuck cases and case heads torn thru by the extractor simply because of negligent cleaning by the owners- a sad event in the middle of a hunt.
One of the worst cases of this that I ever saw was with a semi-auto Browning BAR sporter in .30-06 that a fellow had beside me at the range. I wondered why he had a claw hammer and cleaning rod as part of his shooting kit and I quickly found out. He was shooting handloads, and for starters, he had the primers reversed in about half of the rounds-a situation that you really need to work at to achieve
. When he did manage to fire a round the cases stuck in the chamber and would not extract. I then found out why he had the claw hammer with him as he would beat on the bolt handle until the case came out or the extractor ripped thru the head. He then used the cleaning rod with claw hammer to pound out the cases where the extractor had torn thru the heads. Some testimonial to the durability of this fine rifle. I told him that his problem was due to a dirty/fouled/corroded chamber and offered to check and clean it with the Garand combo tool that I always keep in my range box. This bozo was very much stuck on stupid and said that his problem was because "he hadn't greased up the rifle enough". At that point I decided to sit in the truck until it was over. I won't even say what he did next to a fine old Model 99 Savage, but it did involve the cleaning rod, the hammer, and a pair of pliers. That day I concluded that I had found the genesis of the saying, "as dumb as a sack of hammers".
As indicated, when a round is fired the case expands against the walls of the chamber and then cools and contracts to enable extraction. In a semi-auto there is minimal time for the cooling/contraction to occur so extraction begins with the brass in a hot and still expanded state. If there is an accumulation of powder residue or fouling of any type in the chamber the hot case will tend to adhere to this. In the case of a pitted or scored chamber the problem is even worse where the brass actually imprints itself into the pits or marks and resists extraction to a greater extent. This is why training in proper cleaning & maintenance is essential. In the case of the Garand, M14, and M16 rifles, it was found necessary to issue the troops with a bronze brush to keep chambers clean and free of fouling and prevent stoppages in the field.
Extraction from a dirty /fouled chamber is less of a problem in a bolt gun as the fired case has more time to contract and cool prior to extraction. Also, most bolt guns feature more positive extraction by reason of the greater camming power of the bolt.
Poor extraction due to a fouled or pitted chamber can also be a problem in a civvy semi-auto and the old Remington 740/742 was one of the worst offenders. I have seen stoppages in a number of these with stuck cases and case heads torn thru by the extractor simply because of negligent cleaning by the owners- a sad event in the middle of a hunt.
One of the worst cases of this that I ever saw was with a semi-auto Browning BAR sporter in .30-06 that a fellow had beside me at the range. I wondered why he had a claw hammer and cleaning rod as part of his shooting kit and I quickly found out. He was shooting handloads, and for starters, he had the primers reversed in about half of the rounds-a situation that you really need to work at to achieve
. When he did manage to fire a round the cases stuck in the chamber and would not extract. I then found out why he had the claw hammer with him as he would beat on the bolt handle until the case came out or the extractor ripped thru the head. He then used the cleaning rod with claw hammer to pound out the cases where the extractor had torn thru the heads. Some testimonial to the durability of this fine rifle. I told him that his problem was due to a dirty/fouled/corroded chamber and offered to check and clean it with the Garand combo tool that I always keep in my range box. This bozo was very much stuck on stupid and said that his problem was because "he hadn't greased up the rifle enough". At that point I decided to sit in the truck until it was over. I won't even say what he did next to a fine old Model 99 Savage, but it did involve the cleaning rod, the hammer, and a pair of pliers. That day I concluded that I had found the genesis of the saying, "as dumb as a sack of hammers".Upon inspection of the chamber (as much as my eyes could see), it seems to have very slight pitting and I am thinking that there is a deeper pit in one corner because the last casing had a bulge near the rim. So if the chamber is pitted and causing all this trouble, then that means I need a new barrel, correct? If so, where the heck am I gonna find one in good shape in Canada and how much are we talking here? Appreciate all the advice and information I have recieved so far.
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Before you start thinking of a new barrel, it might be best to take it to a good gunsmith who knows something about the M-1 Garand. If he has the right tools and the chamber proves pitted, he can remove the barrel and try polishing the chamber. This is sometimes enough to remove the pits and/or encrusted crud.
If the pits and/or damage is too great, a new barrel might be the only option.
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Before you start thinking of a new barrel, it might be best to take it to a good gunsmith who knows something about the M-1 Garand. If he has the right tools and the chamber proves pitted, he can remove the barrel and try polishing the chamber. This is sometimes enough to remove the pits and/or encrusted crud.
If the pits and/or damage is too great, a new barrel might be the only option.
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Now that you have cleaned the chamber I'd be inclined to shoot it again and see how it functions now. If it extracts OK after cleaning it may just be a matter of being diligent with chamber cleaning in the future. If the barrel shoots well and will allow case extraction you might want to live with this rather than replace the barrel.
New GI barrels run in the $300-$400 range and good used ones can be found for maybe $200. Installation costs are on top of this. Barrels come up on the EE quite often.
If cases won't extract properly after cleaning the chamber, one other measure which could be attempted prior to barrel replacement, would be to polish the chamber with steel wool on a split dowel turned in a variable speed drill. This would require the barrel to be removed (proper barrel vice and receiver wrench are required for barrel removal and installation) to get proper access to the chamber for polishing. If that doesn't help, barrel replacement is the only solution.
New GI barrels run in the $300-$400 range and good used ones can be found for maybe $200. Installation costs are on top of this. Barrels come up on the EE quite often.
If cases won't extract properly after cleaning the chamber, one other measure which could be attempted prior to barrel replacement, would be to polish the chamber with steel wool on a split dowel turned in a variable speed drill. This would require the barrel to be removed (proper barrel vice and receiver wrench are required for barrel removal and installation) to get proper access to the chamber for polishing. If that doesn't help, barrel replacement is the only solution.
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There is also an alternative. I would talk to the guy who sold it to you. You say you just bought it, and took it to the range for the first time. With a rifle chamber in that condition, it is hard to imagine that the seller did not know about the problem.
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There is also an alternative. I would talk to the guy who sold it to you. You say you just bought it, and took it to the range for the first time. With a rifle chamber in that condition, it is hard to imagine that the seller did not know about the problem.
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Very good point Buffdog. You bought a problem...can it be returned?
