Garand or No4Mk1

3

303carbine

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Vancouver Island BC
Although the Garand is a very good battle rifle, I still prefer the No4Mk1 Enfield design. I wish the when John Garand designed the original M1 that he had made it with 10 and 20 round detachable mags.
 
Italy, used the BM59, a select fire version of the Garand and chambered in 7.62x51. The M14 really isn't much different from the Garand, just a major improvement for assebmly and cost.

Semi auto rifles that are chambered for full size cartridges like the 7.62x51, 7.62x54, 30-06 etc are difficult to control during rapid fire and ammunition is heavy. Those were the main failings of the semi auto heavy hitters.

The BM59 rifles were once offered by International Firearms in Canada. They were all, to my limited knowledge, converted autos. I fired a few of them at the range and didn't really find them any different from a Garand. I didn't like the 20 round mag sticking out below the rifle. It was uncomfortable and felt unnatural while firing in the prone position.
 
bearhunter said:
Italy, used the BM59, a select fire version of the Garand and chambered in 7.62x51. The M14 really isn't much different from the Garand, just a major improvement for assebmly and cost.

Semi auto rifles that are chambered for full size cartridges like the 7.62x51, 7.62x54, 30-06 etc are difficult to control during rapid fire and ammunition is heavy. Those were the main failings of the semi auto heavy hitters.

The BM59 rifles were once offered by International Firearms in Canada. They were all, to my limited knowledge, converted autos. I fired a few of them at the range and didn't really find them any different from a Garand. I didn't like the 20 round mag sticking out below the rifle. It was uncomfortable and felt unnatural while firing in the prone position.
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A ten round mag and being able to top it off would have made the Garand a "better" combat rifle.
The M-14 is a better design and perhaps somewhat lighter.
 
I think it would have been easier to fire if it was a straight back stock-dealy like the AR rather then having the palm grip like a traditional rifle...

To much power with that pivot point...
 
For shooting accuracy, we found that either one would win the matches in our area's milsurp matches. Both are well made, have very good back sights, and respond well to handloads. Just about every other rifle on the line (at least until the K31's came around) was a weak competitor.
 
I don't understand all the talk about topping up magazines. Soldiers were issued their ammo mostly in bandoliers of five round chargers, or in the case of the M1, eight round clips. The eight round clip could be ejected and replaced with a full one. Of course, you would end up with loose rounds falling out of a clip. A rifle with a normal magazine could be topped up with a partial charger, in which case you would have a partially full clip with rounds falling out of it. Not much difference, in either case. There were all sorts of experimental Garands built, with Johnson mags, Bar mags, etc. but the eight round design worked well enough, so they stuck with it. Most of the drawbacks of the Garand clip were dreamed up by armchair experts.
 
"...when John Garand designed the original M1 that he had made it with..." He did. The U.S. military didn't want it. His first 'primer operated' rifle(more of an LMG than rifle), made in 1919, used a 20 round BAR mag or a 40 round mag. It didn't meet the requirements set by the U.S. military though.
"...top up the M41 Johnson?..." Yep.
 
BUSHMAN79 said:
I don't understand all the talk about topping up magazines. Soldiers were issued their ammo mostly in bandoliers of five round chargers, or in the case of the M1, eight round clips. The eight round clip could be ejected and replaced with a full one. Of course, you would end up with loose rounds falling out of a clip. A rifle with a normal magazine could be topped up with a partial charger, in which case you would have a partially full clip with rounds falling out of it. Not much difference, in either case. There were all sorts of experimental Garands built, with Johnson mags, Bar mags, etc. but the eight round design worked well enough, so they stuck with it. Most of the drawbacks of the Garand clip were dreamed up by armchair experts.
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No armchair expert here, just a noted preference for the Enfield mag design over the enbloc system of the Garand.
 
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