Getting a Lee Enfield up to accuracy.

[bluemike807]

Not too long ago I posted about the sporter. No4 Mk1 I picked up. Well, I got it cleaned up some, refinished the furniture with BLO, and Im hoping, in the future, to de-sporterize the stock, but in the meantime, I'd just like to get used to it.

Holy crap does it kick. I've shot a .308 but I wasn't prepared for the punch in the shoulder this bastard gives. The steel butt plate should have been a good indicator that I was in for some punishment. When I shot at the range, I traded a shot with another guy there who had an SKS. That 7.62x39's recoil was like a stiff breeze. Meanwhile, the other guy, as soon as he fired let out a yell and a 'aaaaarghh... F**K!". That'll learn him.

Im a newcomer to shooting sports, so I wasn't terribly surprised when I didn't do so well at 100yards. I put 10 rounds downrange, and two of them hit a 8" paper target. Not even close to where I was putting my post. I've got pinch and pull rear sights - I tried with both the 'battle' sight, and the lowest notch (not marked but its got to be about 100m calibration) and - no dice.

I hit the 50yd range, and 8 rounds later, had the same result.

Now, just to reiterate, when I bought the rifle, the storekeeper told me it had been given a cursory cleaning. I improved on this, inside and out. I dont have any experience with vintage rifles, so when I looked at the bore when I first got it, there wasn't much to see. Its a 2-groove barrel, and I figured, with age and an older design, maybe there wasn't much TO see.

I gave it a quick clean before I took it to the range, just to make sure any really big chunks were gone. I thought I'd done a decent job.
Yeah right. I burned about 20 patches last night cleaning the damn thing, and more than half my solvent. Now the bore was much cleaner, and the grooves are deep and sharp. That said, I still wasn't satisfied, so I bought a wire brush and gave it a few runs through. It was as if someone had poured powdered lead into the barrel. Now, I dont think this thing was cleaned from the day it was issued to some Tommy 60 years ago!!

Another 20 patches later, its stopped giving up lead. The bore is a mirror, and the rifling could cut glass. I really hope this will help accuracy.

Ok. The point of this thread - how the hell do I sight this thing. The sights are for meters; no problem there, I suppose, as long as I remember the imperial/metric equivalencies. The foresight however has a huge post - the tip of which is almost 3/4" higher than the muzzle. Im guessing I put most of my rounds yesterday well over the target.

For those of you who have shot Enfields - whats the rule of thumb for targetting? Do you think the crappy state of the bore was a factor in its apparent inaccuracy? What else can I do to keep lead build up down - and will using the wire brush repeatedly mess with the barrel?

Thanks!

 

[TOScout]

I think a very dirty bore likely hurt your accuracy.

Another possible factor is that you may be using projectiles of a different weight to that which the sights were calibrated for.

Also, were you shooting offhand, or from a rest?

 

[LeeEnfieldNo.4_mk1]

The enfields sites are in yards, the adjustible ones go from 200 to 1300 yards. The enfields were sighted in using different sizes of front posts, Are your groups consistently going to the left, right, up or down? or are they all over the place?

 

[bluemike807]

I was shooting from a bench rest for all of the shots. I was shooting 180 grain Federal Loads, which were recommended as their weight is supposedly closer to the original battle loads. Not sure if this is true or not.

If the sights ARE for yards then, Im doubly baffled as to why I wasn't at least vaguely on target.

I couldn't tell where they were going. I suspected that they were going up, but that was just my impression.

 

[Elliott]

Repeated used of a brass bore brush can do damaged to the rifleing in the barrel. Go to your local gun store and pick up some Gunslick foaming bore cleaner. Follow the directions and cleaning the barrell will take way less time and effort. If you can find a shop that carries Wipeout foaming bore cleaner even better (Seems a little hard to find here in Ontario.). You don't need a lot of it in a cleaning so, a little goes a long way and the can last a long time. Try not to get it on the stock. You can order Wipe out on line if no one in your area carries it. Click on link below.

Wipeout Foaming Bore Cleaner

 

[10x]

A dirty bore can give you incredibly large groups.
I use household ammonia to clean out the bore.
I also use stainless steel bore brushes.
Do not use brass brushes with ammonia - it will eventually desolve them
Ammonia will not hurt the steel bore but it desolves copper fouling very quickly.
Rinse with hot water until the barrel is hot, run a couple of dry patches through, then an oily patch.
I have taken a No. 4 that was shooting a 18" plus group, cleaned it this way and after two fouling shots the group size was just under 4".
I have done this to a number of No 4.s and had similar results with a drop in group size.
Check that there is 4-8 ounces of pressure upwards on the bottom of the barrel by the forend. To littl pressure can play hob with groups as well.

 

[x westie]

Repeated used of a brass bore brush can do damaged to the rifleing in the barrel. Go to your local gun store and pick up some Gunslick foaming bore cleaner. Follow the directions and cleaning the barrell will take way less time and effort. If you can find a shop that carries Wipeout foaming bore cleaner even better (Seems a little hard to find here in Ontario.). You don't need a lot of it in a cleaning so, a little goes a long way and the can last a long time. Try not to get it on the stock. You can order Wipe out on line if no one in your area carries it. Click on link below.

Wipeout Foaming Bore Cleaner

I really am a big fan of Wipe-Out foaming bore cleaner,..no need to use a bore brush..spray some foaming bore cleaner in the chamber,.and place your rifle , muzzle down,..give it a hour, or better over nite,..you will suprised when you run a patch through, how much crud it removes..great stuff.!

 

[bearhunter]

x2 x westie

 

[savagefan]

Try a lighter load.

 

[bigedp51]

Don’t believe Elliot, x-westie or bearhunter they are drug pushers, I fed some foam bore cleaner to my Enfield and it made my Enfield completely psychotic and delusional. When I wasn’t looking my psychotic/delusional Enfield ate a ballpoint pen, got sick and barfed on the paper towel below.

NOTE: Put a target up at 25 yards with a 1 inch round target center, with the rear sight in the up position and set at 200 yards the point of impact should be ¾ of an inch high or above your point of aim.

If your Enfield is grossly off of the above settings with military weight projectiles you have a bedding problem/ loose fore stock.

P.S. Eat your heart out.

 

[bluemike807]

Interesting stuff.... if a bit freaky.

I took it back to the range today, after a good scrubbing with hoppes and a copper brush. Was shooting 180 gr. Winchester factory loads. 4 shots, three on paper, but nowhere near. This was after I ran into one of the range board members who was shooting a gorgeous No.5. He had a look at my No.4 and it seemed even to him that the sights were a bit high. He recommended I put my post at 6 O'Clock on my target.

Did so - it was about a 3" group off to the right and slightly below the center. Not too impressive but a definite improvement over nothing on target.
This, of course, was while the above mentioned fellow made a 1" group at 100 yards with handloads. Cheeky bugger. Granted he wasn't using a 3"x3" hunk of lumber as a rest.

Im going to follow biged's advice and start with 25 yards.

If I do have a loose forestock (or bedding problem) what can I do? Im intending to replace the forestock eventually anyway - should I just wait until I've done that before continuing to shoot this puppy?

 

[maple_leaf_eh]

The wood on the front end is not just there to keep your fingers from getting burnt. It has a critical role in accuracy. Start by gently snugging up the King Screw under the receiver ring. If it seems sloppy, take out the little collar. Or gently file it down a 64th". The wood should be very slightly squeezed before the trigger guard hits the collar.

Next, snap open the butt socket and snug up the butt screw. I have a very long tire iron that works just fine. Snug up the screws on the bands. Finally, with the rifle in a neutral rest (like standing on the butt), gently press the barrel up and down in the stock. It should start down on the wood and have an mild even resistence against your fingers. If not, put a few pieces of stiff cardboard under the barrel at the nose cap. It may or may not solve ONE of your problems.

 

[bigedp51]

Read the following on sighting in your Enfield rifle and note that Ed Horton AKA bigedp51 highly recommends reading this PAM or mini-manual. http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=3312

Also note you have a military rifle that shot corrosive ammunition, the inside of your bore from shooting this corrosive ammunition becomes frosted and can act just like sand paper on your bore brush. The “remains” of your copper bore brush that your barrel “ate” will turn blue when copper solvent is used and give you a false “copper” reading in your bore.

Use foam bore cleaner, you will NOT find anything that cleans any better with NO work involved.

Try removing the front trigger guard screw bushing and then fire your Enfield, if your accuracy improves and the point of impact moves you are suffering from wood shrinkage and “might” have a bedding problem.

Please note I said “might” have a bedding problem, several good rubdowns with Raw Linseed Oil (RLO) might cause the wood to swell enough to make the “bedding problem” disappear.

Your stock when first made was dipped and allowed to soak in a tank of hot RAW linseed oil that penetrated deeply into the wood. If the raw linseed oil is not applied at least yearly the wood dries out and shrinks, this can cause a loose fore stock and bedding/accuracy problems.

Use a 50/50 mixture raw linseed oil and turpentine and let it soak into the wood and see what happens. If the oil disappears into your stock, keep applying the raw linseed oil until your stock is no longer dry as a popcorn fart.

 

[bdft]

Have you tried getting someone else to shoot the rifle. No offence, but it may be you that is the problem. Take a good look at the muzzle. Does it seem eggshaped? Take an unfired round and insert in the muzzle, bullet first. Does it fit tight or loosely? If gas can escape from one side of the bullet before the other it may cause it to shoot very large groups. I have an old No 1 Mk 1 sporter that I counterbored and brought the groups down from 8" to 3".

 

[bluemike807]

All good advice guys, thank you very much. I will be sure to try everything (reasonable) that was mentioned.

As for this:

Have you tried getting someone else to shoot the rifle. No offence, but it may be you that is the problem.

Im open to the idea. Im an admitted novice in the field of shooting, aside from a dozen rounds of .308 at Connaught. Even then it was dicey. That said, I had another guy try the Enfield when I first shot it, and he was an excellent shot with his own rifles (Colt M4 and even an SKS with decent groups at 100yds) - guy's in school to be a Conservation Officer).
He couldnt hit paper either.

Im going to thoroughly read the zeroing guide posted earlier, as frankly, I know my fundamentals are nonexistent. I'd love to learn more first hand but aside from bugging people shooting alongside me, the range Im at doesn't offer courses or clinics. That said, I've learned a hell of a lot in just two days' shooting, and I intend to keep at it religiously.

Will try a few of the things mentioned and keep you posted.

 

[10x]

Excellent comments and advice snipped

Use foam bore cleaner, you will NOT find anything that cleans any better with NO work involved.

more excellent advice snipped

Beg to differ but a soak with household ammonia will leave a bore incredibly clean. I have had "dark" bores go bright after an overnight with ammonia.
I have never seen the need to use a foaming bore cleaner but then If I used it, I may be impressed. - or maybe not.

 

[enefgee]

P.S. Eat your heart out.

Holy Crap, I've known quite a few old soldiers (I was babysat as a very young boy by British veterans of just about every major and minor conflict and battle between the end of WW1 and Malaysia) who would insist that the L-E was capable of that level of accuracy, and heard as many times (or more) since then that it just plain isn't mechanically capable of that type of group. Thank's Big Ed, now I have a shirtload of work to do to equal that. (I'm not worthy, but I am willing )

 

[got to go]

Holy Crap, I've known quite a few old soldiers (I was babysat as a very young boy by British veterans of just about every major and minor conflict and battle between the end of WW1 and Malaysia) who would insist that the L-E was capable of that level of accuracy, and heard as many times (or more) since then that it just plain isn't mechanically capable of that type of group. Thank's Big Ed, now I have a shirtload of work to do to equal that. (I'm not worthy, but I am willing )

That target looks like it's got powder burns on it