GHM9 / B and T Owner Feedback Wanted

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vladputin

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Hello,

I am considering the purchase of a B&T GHM9.

I hear good things about the B&T lineup in general, but have also come across a number of reports where a GHM9 has had a "catastrophic failure."

In most cases, the extractor and small parts are ejected from the firearm, along with the magazine. In some cases a chunk of the lower is also blown out. I have seen photos of this on both GHM9 and APC9 platforms, and in all generations. Most (if not all) have been in the OEM B&T magazine configuration. B&T claims that their firearms cannot fire out of battery, but I am not sure how correct that is.

I have heard that all direct blowback PPC's can suffer from out of battery detonations (OOB). Does anyone know what the root cause of these failures has been?

Any info is appreciated. I would like to purchase one, but am being held back by these reports.

If any owners could chime in and share their thoughts and experiences, that would be appreciated!

Some examples of what I am referring to:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYlXErKOPYY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J97XvKzhfjw

https://www.reddit.com/r/bruggerthomet/comments/10vlajo/im_pretty_pissed/

https://www.reddit.com/r/NFA/comments/10usnwm/ghm9_self_distraction/

https://www.reddit.com/r/BT_APC/comments/15dzke1/apc_9k_destruction_extractor_gone/

https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/for...775-BT-GHM9-extractor-just-went-missing/page2
 
The GHM9 cannot fire out of battery.

B&T has stated that the cause of these issues is ammunition related. In all cases, there was something wrong with the ammo.

Either an improperly loaded under powered load (these can be destructive in direct blowbacks), or a severely over powered load caused by a bullet without a proper crimp being pushed down into the case upon loading, and thus generating a massive pressure spike (equally as destructive).

There are a few known brands to avoid, including PMC. Avoid hollow points that aren’t crimped well. They can snag and be pushed down into their cases while transitioning from the magazine to the chamber via the feed ramp.

Quality brass 9mm with a good crimp shouldn’t be an issue.

That’s my take on it at least. I hope others chime in.
 
I've had one for a couple years and it's run flawlessly. it's comfortable, compact, and my kids and I have a great time at the range with it. I've run several types and weights of ammo through and it's been 100%.

Saying that I'm looking at moving it on as I have a few PCC's now and this one doesn't get out much any more.
 
Bfranklin said:
What would you consider to be an alternate equivalent to a GHM9?
Click to expand...

Honestly not sure.

We don’t have all that many options.

On paper the GHM9’s and ACP’s are the highest quality of the bunch.

I had an FX9 and it had a ton of issues. Mind you, that was a first generation and a very early one at that.

I have had a 9mm X95. It just didn’t do it for me.

The Ruger PC9 is neat, that’s a possible option. But isn’t perfect. (A friend had issues with a few things, they were solved with aftermarket mcarbo parts).

I prefer something compact. Not too picky that it’s restricted.
 
Klondiker said:
I've had one for a couple years and it's run flawlessly. it's comfortable, compact, and my kids and I have a great time at the range with it. I've run several types and weights of ammo through and it's been 100%.

Saying that I'm looking at moving it on as I have a few PCC's now and this one doesn't get out much any more.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your perspective.

What PPC’s are you keeping over it?
 
vladputin said:
Honestly not sure.

We don’t have all that many options.

On paper the GHM9’s and ACP’s are the highest quality of the bunch.

I had an FX9 and it had a ton of issues. Mind you, that was a first generation and a very early one at that.

I have had a 9mm X95. It just didn’t do it for me.

The Ruger PC9 is neat, that’s a possible option. But isn’t perfect. (A friend had issues with a few things, they were solved with aftermarket mcarbo parts).

I prefer something compact. Not too picky that it’s restricted.
Click to expand...

Of those options the B&T is the stand out winner hands down.
 
i don't own a GHM, but I do have an APC9 which has been thoroughly outstanding in every possible regard. They are the essentially the same operating system, albeit with the Hydraulic Buffer attached to the the rear of the Bolt for the GHM, versus attached to the rear of the Receiver on the APC9. They have the same effect overall. Both guns share the same design features for handling over-pressure rounds (built like the proverbial "brick ####e-house"), out-of-battery ignition (the angle of the bottom rear of the Bolt prevents Hammer to Firing Pin contact unless the action is fully closed), and under-pressure rounds (blow-out Extractor and Springs to provide a path out of the gun for high-pressure gasses to escape without damaging the gun). I note UNDER-pressure rounds from PMC were the culprit for the failure in the first and second videos, both of which were thoroughly addressed by B+T Customer Service phone calls to the Youtube content creators in question. Those content creators went on to explain the failure in their subsequent videos.

Based on the videos provided, there appears to be no fault assigned to the B+T GHM. Indeed, the ammo-related failures serve to highlight all of the subtly-designed safety measures that are directly engineered into the firearm to address over-pressure and under-pressure ammo. Given that faulty ammo is fully to blame for the so-called "catastrophic failures" (addressed by replacing the ejected Extractor and Spring), I don't understand your continued concern with the quality and design of the GHM itself. All of those concerns were thoroughly addressed in the very first video. What more do you need to convince you that the GHM is the superior choice over the alternative PCC platforms currently available in Canada?

I have zero concerns about the design safety of the ACP9 nor the GHM. In my view, they are without a doubt, the most professionally designed and validated PCCs currently available in Canada. The fact that the US Army type-classified the APC9K-Pro as its newest Submachinegun in 75 years after extensive testing and trials ought to allay any fears or hesitation regarding B+T products. They are superb in every conceivable regard, from User Safety to Reliability, Accuracy and Ergonomics. What more proof do you need to make an informed decision?!?





Viable options (iIMHO), that are available for purchase new in Canada would include (in no ranked order):


- FN PS90 - an outstanding platform in every regard. Ammo costs have come down to $.90 per round, depending where you purchase. This is an equal alternative to the B+T in terms of sheer performance,





- FX-9 - the current generation functions very well, but with more pronounced recoil than the B+T;





- Kriss Vector (.45 ACP version) - The 9mm version takes no advantage of the much--touted recoil mitigation system; and





- Ruger 9mm Carbine - I have no personal experience with this firearm, which is ugly as heck but an anecdotally excellent performer.


 
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Thank you for putting things into perspective.

The B&T designs do seem to reduce the possibility of major damage.

I was just concerned as nobody wants to have a failure of that kind.

In some cases linked above, the receivers did bow, and lowers cracked and blew out pieces. That being said, other designs (CZ Scorpion) have had far worse outcomes in the same scenarios.

I like the ACP offering but do not like the pinned lowers. The GHM Glock lower is attractive.

Thanks for your thoughts. They are appreciated.
 
vladputin said:
Thank you for putting things into perspective.

The B&T designs do seem to reduce the possibility of major damage.

I was just concerned as nobody wants to have a failure of that kind.

In some cases linked above, the receivers did bow, and lowers cracked and blew out pieces. That being said, other designs (CZ Scorpion) have had far worse outcomes in the same scenarios.

I like the ACP offering but do not like the pinned lowers. The GHM Glock lower is attractive.

Thanks for your thoughts. They are appreciated.
Click to expand...

You are very welcome. The GHM with Glock Lower is an excellent choice of the remaining options for Canadian-legal PCCs. I think that you will be very happy with one. Just avoid PMC 9mm ammo, which is known for its inconsistency and low-pressures. Stick with Sellier and Bellot or another quality brand. Even if it costs a few cents more per round, the ease of mind is worth the price of admission with higher quality ammo. Even if you do suffer damage in the unlikely event of a low-power cartridge, as you noted the outcomes with the GHM are generally less serious/catastrophic than the examples with other platforms. And the comparative price of the GHM is actually quite reasonable when compared to its contemporaries. What's not to like? I say "go for it!". You won't be disappointed with the B+T's superior level of quality.

Best of luck with your purchase!
 
vladputin said:
I like the ACP offering but do not like the pinned lowers. The GHM Glock lower is attractive.
Click to expand...

The APC and GHM9 lowers are both pinned and are interchangeable.

I have a GHM9 with the Glock lower (I own a G17 so it only made sense) and it's been 100% flawless with no failures of any kind in the 18+ months I've owned it. I've run either S&B or Blazer Brass exclusively.
 
Bartok5 said:
You are very welcome. The GHM with Glock Lower is an excellent choice of the remaining options for Canadian-legal PCCs. I think that you will be very happy with one. Just avoid PMC 9mm ammo, which is known for its inconsistency and low-pressures. Stick with Sellier and Bellot or another quality brand. Even if it costs a few cents more per round, the ease of mind is worth the price of admission with higher quality ammo. Even if you do suffer damage in the unlikely event of a low-power cartridge, as you noted the outcomes with the GHM are generally less serious/catastrophic than the examples with other platforms. And the comparative price of the GHM is actually quite reasonable when compared to its contemporaries. What's not to like? I say "go for it!". You won't be disappointed with the B+T's superior level of quality.

Best of luck with your purchase!
Click to expand...

Thank you! I think that will be my next purchase.

What have you been feeding your APC in terms of brand and bullet weights?
 
PixInTheSix said:
The APC and GHM9 lowers are both pinned and are interchangeable.

I have a GHM9 with the Glock lower (I own a G17 so it only made sense) and it's been 100% flawless with no failures of any kind in the 18+ months I've owned it. I've run either S&B or Blazer Brass exclusively.
Click to expand...

The GHM 9’s I’ve seen at local stores don’t have a pinned lower. As in, it is completely removable. Whereas the APC 9’s only allow the rear pin removal, and are hinged at the front with a permanent pin.

Glad to hear yours is doing well.

What bullet weights do you normally use?
 
vladputin said:
The GHM 9’s I’ve seen at local stores don’t have a pinned lower. As in, it is completely removable. Whereas the APC 9’s only allow the rear pin removal, and are hinged at the front with a permanent pin.

Glad to hear yours is doing well.

What bullet weights do you normally use?
Click to expand...

I read that as pinned=have user removable pins. I mean, you've seen what you've seen but the lowers on both guns are identical and every APC9 I've seen has captive pins front and rear that allow the lower to be easily removed from the upper.

I have used both 115gr and 124gr. Honestly there's no discernible difference between the two out of this gun.
 
I believe that the Gen 1 APCs were perma-pinned at the front pivot point whereas the Gen 2s have a removable Lower Receiver due to a front, captive Push-Pin. This would explain the differing observations/experiences mentioned thus far....
 
Bartok5 said:
I believe that the Gen 1 APCs were perma-pinned at the front pivot point whereas the Gen 2s have a removable Lower Receiver due to a front, captive Push-Pin. This would explain the differing observations/experiences mentioned thus far....
Click to expand...

I'll absolutely buy that.
 
Bartok5 said:
i don't own a GHM, but I do have an APC9 which has been thoroughly outstanding in every possible regard. They are the essentially the same operating system, albeit with the Hydraulic Buffer attached to the the rear of the Bolt for the GHM, versus attached to the rear of the Receiver on the APC9. They have the same effect overall. Both guns share the same design features for handling over-pressure rounds (built like the proverbial "brick ####e-house"), out-of-battery ignition (the angle of the bottom rear of the Bolt prevents Hammer to Firing Pin contact unless the action is fully closed), and under-pressure rounds (blow-out Extractor and Springs to provide a path out of the gun for high-pressure gasses to escape without damaging the gun). I note UNDER-pressure rounds from PMC were the culprit for the failure in the first and second videos, both of which were thoroughly addressed by B+T Customer Service phone calls to the Youtube content creators in question. Those content creators went on to explain the failure in their subsequent videos.
Click to expand...


Should I be concerned with pmc 9mm in a spc9 that I just purchased or was this failure strictly limited to the ghm?
 
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My 2 gripes with my buddys NR B&T GHM9 is that the factory wire folding stock is way too short and the factory forend is way too long. Other then that id say its the best PCC ive used to date. More or less the perfect blend of rifle sized comfort, and PCC nimbleness. Paired with the smooth action and build quality youd expect for a premium gun.
 
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