sundance1972
Regular
- Location
- duncan b.c.
just curious to see how many different loads/powders people try before giving up on one style or weight of bullet.
giving up on a bullet
- Thread starter sundance1972
- Start date
That's a good question, I'd be curious to know too.
I only load .308 at the moment, but I know from my own personal experience, I think I've tried a lot of combo's. For my M1A and M14S I know that I have now tired 3 powders and 9 different bullets. I have also tried 3 different cases and 3 primers. I experimented with varying combos of each with different weights of powders, primer, brass, bullet combos. In my excel file that I update with every load I've tried I'm up to 71 different combos! I also file all my targets and measure all the results and put them back into the spreadsheet.
I'm working on a load right now for my custom R700.. Same idea, only up to 23 loads though!
I think you have to keep trying (within reason) till you find what you gun likes to shoot!
I only load .308 at the moment, but I know from my own personal experience, I think I've tried a lot of combo's. For my M1A and M14S I know that I have now tired 3 powders and 9 different bullets. I have also tried 3 different cases and 3 primers. I experimented with varying combos of each with different weights of powders, primer, brass, bullet combos. In my excel file that I update with every load I've tried I'm up to 71 different combos! I also file all my targets and measure all the results and put them back into the spreadsheet.
I'm working on a load right now for my custom R700.. Same idea, only up to 23 loads though!
I think you have to keep trying (within reason) till you find what you gun likes to shoot!
This depends how badly I wish to use a certain bullet. I'll explain: I went on a quest to find a good load for a 308 Norma Mag I once owned. I wanted to use the 180 Partition, and was hoping for 3100 fps within acceptable pressure limits. I experimented a lot with powders that I had been successful with before; H4831, H4350, H450, IMR 4831, IMR 4350, IMR 7828, Reloder 22, Norma 204 & MRP, Vihtavuori N160, N165. Powders in this burn rate area had always produced a winning combo in the past......not this time. Velocity was there with several of these numbers, but accuracy was elusive. Thinking perhaps a barrel issue, I moved down to the 165 grain partition, and almost immediately found a load that delivered sub-moa accuracy at 3200+ fps. Obviously, the rifle would shoot, but I wanted to shoot the 180 [had a good supply on hand, plus I have always felt that the 180 & 200 grain Partitions were the best in magnum cases] On a lark, I started experimenting with slower burning numbers like H1000, RL 25, and Vihtavuori N170. Bingo! RL 25 and H1000 both turned in nice little groups with H1000 edging the RL 25 by a small but noticeable amount. Across the 'graph, velocities were there, so that became my hunting load with that rifle. If, on the other hand, I just happened to have a box of some bullet that I was trying out for "S & G", I would only try three or four loads. If no results were promising, I would simply put them away, perhaps to sell later [or try in another rifle] Sometimes it takes a bit of work and time to find what you want, sometimes it just falls into your lap. That is what make reloading so entriguing and challenging occasionally. Regards, Eagleye.
Well, if I went through a whole box without finding a load, I likely wouldn't try another box of the same bullets...
I only load a few cals, so I'm not stocking 20 different powders that I'll never use. If a bullet doesn't work with the 3-5 powders on hand, then I try a different bullet...
I only load a few cals, so I'm not stocking 20 different powders that I'll never use. If a bullet doesn't work with the 3-5 powders on hand, then I try a different bullet...
It depends. Some of my favorite calibers eat barrels, so I won't be spending hundreds of rounds trying to make something that doesn't want to shoot, shoot. I can always use the part boxes on the next gun.
You can laugh if you want, but I've had good luck by looking in my old Nosler book and starting with whatever powder they picked as the most accurate.
You can laugh if you want, but I've had good luck by looking in my old Nosler book and starting with whatever powder they picked as the most accurate.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
It is not normal for a given bullet to shoot poorly with any reasonable load, but if it doesn't show promise with the first group I don't wast time or components attempting to get performance that won't or can't happen. Bullets that refuse to shoot often have length to twist issues as even inexpensive bullets can shoot well.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
After testing rifles with all manner of components, I have tired and become far more specific.
First the rifle. What is it's potential? Will an SKS ever become an MOA shooter? Is this a factory rifle or a custom job with a premium pipe? Has all the basic rifle tuning been done?
I limit to match primers (Fed 210M or CCI BR2), Hodgdon Extruded powder in the appropriate burn range, fireformed brass that has undergone some prep and has no runout, most importantly, a quality bullet with the potential to shoot.
This usually means a match or varmint quality bullet. I like Hornady poly tipped but would use a Berger or lapua if in the right cal/weight I want.
Critical that my finished ammo's runout is only a few thou. Crap in, crap out.
By working up in small powder increments, I fire 2 rds of each powder increment at 200yds. Within 20rds, I know if this rifle is going to shoot or not. If not, I may switch bullet and try again. Rarely do I bother changing powders and almost never, primers.
A good rifle is going to shoot right away with quality components (may not have the highest performance desired but the groups will be interesting enough to continue). A poor or fussy rifle gets rebarreled or sold off. Gone are the days that I want to test hundreds of rds to make a rifle shoot...
YMMV.
Jerry
First the rifle. What is it's potential? Will an SKS ever become an MOA shooter? Is this a factory rifle or a custom job with a premium pipe? Has all the basic rifle tuning been done?
I limit to match primers (Fed 210M or CCI BR2), Hodgdon Extruded powder in the appropriate burn range, fireformed brass that has undergone some prep and has no runout, most importantly, a quality bullet with the potential to shoot.
This usually means a match or varmint quality bullet. I like Hornady poly tipped but would use a Berger or lapua if in the right cal/weight I want.
Critical that my finished ammo's runout is only a few thou. Crap in, crap out.
By working up in small powder increments, I fire 2 rds of each powder increment at 200yds. Within 20rds, I know if this rifle is going to shoot or not. If not, I may switch bullet and try again. Rarely do I bother changing powders and almost never, primers.
A good rifle is going to shoot right away with quality components (may not have the highest performance desired but the groups will be interesting enough to continue). A poor or fussy rifle gets rebarreled or sold off. Gone are the days that I want to test hundreds of rds to make a rifle shoot...
YMMV.
Jerry
- Location
- Kitchener, ON
Each and every barrel has its own unique characteristics about it, some bad and hopefully more for the good. My Lazzeroni Tomahawk will pretty much shoot every bullet that I put down the tube and with excellent accuracy; except for the 139gr Hornady SP. I have tried at least 5 different powder and primer combinations, being careful to change only one variable at a time. I have even tinkered with the bullets on and off the lands. This gun just does not like this bullet for some mysterious and unknown reasoning. While on the other hand my .243 Savage Predator Hunter has not rejected one single bullet that I have put down the tube. This gun has accepted and welcomed every bullet that I have introduced it to. So, welcome to the world of reloading.
8 powders and 96 bullets later, I quit trying top get my W'by .243 to shoot 85 gr TSX's consistently. After every run, I'd end it with typically around a .500" - .625" 3-shot group with a 95 gr Ballistic Silvertip just to make sure it wasn't just me. Haven't given up yet - VV powders are up next. I just refuse to believe the bullet won't work like TSX's do in other rifles of mine even if it means a new barrel eventually. It's only a matter of time......
OTOH, I quit on Speers quite a while ago, admittedly without ever really giving them the same chance. Noslers and Barnes's for me plus some HD Hornady's for the .45-70 and .444.
OTOH, I quit on Speers quite a while ago, admittedly without ever really giving them the same chance. Noslers and Barnes's for me plus some HD Hornady's for the .45-70 and .444.
Fell out of love with testing marginal bullets years ago and the name of the game has become making up my mind pretty fast about whether I'm going to put more effort in. Now I generally don't test bullets that aren't matched to the twist in the barrel I'm testing. It's usually a waste of time, much like Boomer said. Unless I'm doing something truly off the wall, (or have found some free or cheap powder, bullets...etc. ),the powders I test have been found to work with the bullet/powder/primer combination I'm working with. An example might be 308 caliber, 1 in 14 twist, 155 g VLD with one of RL15, H4895 or Varget (personal preference, there are other good powders too). Usually I screen one powder in increments of 0.2 or 0.3 grains from min to max and get some idea of where the nodes are. There is a decision to be made at this point. If accuracy looks good, I might try another powder that is just a tad faster or slower (or that I have a lot of ), or a bullet from a different maker and run another initial screening. With my 6 mm, for example, I ended up trying Berger 88 g flatbacks vs 90 g Scenars. Initial testing was done with the Scenars, and accuracy was good, but the flatbacks looked really good after an initial screening and gave more symmetrical and slightly tighter groups at 300 meters over 5 groups of 5 shots each. So far this difference, while slight, has held up. If accuracy is not good during the initial screening I will probably lose interest in the firearm. It's like others have said here, one expects some sort of accuracy right away with a good rifle. If the accuracy looks potentially good, the rest of the testing will happen around the nodes and at the distances I'm going to shoot over. I used to do three shots at each powder level during the initial screening until Mystic Player talked me into doing only two. So far, I don't think I have lost much preliminary information by only shooting two. One thing I've been thinking about is stability, for lack of a better word. I get the impression, unverified so far, that you can get a combination that shoots very accurately at a given load level, but falls off in accuracy pretty fast on either side of the load. I wonder sometimes if one shouldn't avoid such loads, especially considering the variable conditions one shoots under.
),the powders I test have been found to work with the bullet/powder/primer combination I'm working with. An example might be 308 caliber, 1 in 14 twist, 155 g VLD with one of RL15, H4895 or Varget (personal preference, there are other good powders too). Usually I screen one powder in increments of 0.2 or 0.3 grains from min to max and get some idea of where the nodes are. There is a decision to be made at this point. If accuracy looks good, I might try another powder that is just a tad faster or slower (or that I have a lot of ), or a bullet from a different maker and run another initial screening. With my 6 mm, for example, I ended up trying Berger 88 g flatbacks vs 90 g Scenars. Initial testing was done with the Scenars, and accuracy was good, but the flatbacks looked really good after an initial screening and gave more symmetrical and slightly tighter groups at 300 meters over 5 groups of 5 shots each. So far this difference, while slight, has held up. If accuracy is not good during the initial screening I will probably lose interest in the firearm. It's like others have said here, one expects some sort of accuracy right away with a good rifle. If the accuracy looks potentially good, the rest of the testing will happen around the nodes and at the distances I'm going to shoot over. I used to do three shots at each powder level during the initial screening until Mystic Player talked me into doing only two. So far, I don't think I have lost much preliminary information by only shooting two. One thing I've been thinking about is stability, for lack of a better word. I get the impression, unverified so far, that you can get a combination that shoots very accurately at a given load level, but falls off in accuracy pretty fast on either side of the load. I wonder sometimes if one shouldn't avoid such loads, especially considering the variable conditions one shoots under.
Good answers. can't add a thing.
It always surprizes me how each rifle (barrel) is so unique. It is not unusual for me to buy 3 top quality match barrels at a time (3 of us shoot in this family) and chamber them with the same reamer, but each requires a differnt load.
Have not had a rifle fail to shoot the Sierra match bullet well, but sometimes each rifle needs a differrent powder.
It always surprizes me how each rifle (barrel) is so unique. It is not unusual for me to buy 3 top quality match barrels at a time (3 of us shoot in this family) and chamber them with the same reamer, but each requires a differnt load.
Have not had a rifle fail to shoot the Sierra match bullet well, but sometimes each rifle needs a differrent powder.
I tried I don't know how many loads (100 rounds worth for sure) in my 30-06 with 165gr GameKings... none would shoot to my expectations.
Finally I tried 180's, then 150's, and found both to be much better.
It really depends how much patience you have LOL
Finally I tried 180's, then 150's, and found both to be much better.
It really depends how much patience you have LOL
It's odd but I have had the same experience with my 30-06. For some reason it doesn't group all that well with 165 grain bullets. It loves 180's of almost any kind and shoots 150's marginally better than the 165's. I could understand the preference for 180's (larger bearing surface?) but have no idea why the 150's would be better. Clear evidence that there are ghosts in the machine. That's all I can say.
