Glass for a longer range shooter

Browning_300wsm

Regular
Rating - 100%
9   0   0
Location
Eastern Ontario
Just picked up a Remington 700 Sendero 7mm STW. Eventually want to do some longer range shooting but mainly within 500 yards. Was thinking somewhere in the range of 4.5-14 or 6-24, 50mm objective. I usually use Leupold and Nikon. I'll likely get a Leupold but wanted to hear of other opinions like the Vortex, higher end bushnell etc. Going to get a second hand one to start. Wanting to keep it under $1000 if at all possible. I really should just bite the bullet and get the VX5HD with the broader zoom range.
 
Thats a sweet gun, i have had my eye on that exact one for a few months now.
I would probably get a first focal plane scope with mil dot reticle. If you are wanting to keep it under 1000, a vortex viper pst 6-24, or strike eagle 5-25 might fit the bill.
 
Thank you! Probably the same one I got. Was advertised here and on the other site out of Alberta. Very excited to try this beast out. May have a look at those! Yeah was wondering on focal plane and mil vs MOA etc. Never used a mil scope before.
 
Don't waste your time on a mildot reticle. You will learn the limitations of 1 mil holds very quick. Skip vortex too. FFP in MRAD with a Christmas tree reticle and .2 mil wind holds is what I'd look at. Check out the Athlon line of scopes. Midas TAC and up are great
.
 
Look at the Athlon scopes, very good optics for the price, I think the Argos gen2 with ffp, 6x24x50, ir is selling for $555 and they are competing with scope double the money. If you contact Jerry at Mystic Precision he should be getting one with the moa reticle, I originally ordered it and then decided to upgrade to the Ares Etc.They also have a lifetime warranty.
 
If I could offer the most important piece of advice when it comes to optic selection...

Its all about depth of field.

If you think about depth of field and why it matters to shooters it plays out in a variety of ways.

First is that a shallow depth of field does not see mirage, but instead the image is simply distorted and blurred, so you cannot depict detail. It seems like the optic is never in focus. You cannot read mirage either except for at extended distances.

These days scope makers are all too often just making what guys ask for even when its a bad idea.

Example 5 or 6 X zoom range or more on a first focal plane scope... Just plain stupid.

Trend toward short scopes with large objectives... That translates directly to shallow depth of field and tight eye box.... Again, just plain stupid.

Guys keep repeating the same old song about big glass being light gathering.... Think of a camera with a large aperture... provides a shallow depth of field in the picture with complete background blur. That's the last thing you want in a rifle scope.

You are better off with a nice long scope and even only a 40 or 50 mm objective.... They even sell these diopters to stop down the objective lenses for guys who are aware of this problem.

If you want to shoot well, you are looking to read mirage and see your bullets in flight and you will not do that well with a shallow depth of field scope.
 
Maple57: I’m a guy who knows nothing about this ‘depth of field’ stuff, aside from a couple posts of yours. When looking online, how do I tell if a scope has decent depth of field? Thanks.
 
Maple57: I’m a guy who knows nothing about this ‘depth of field’ stuff, aside from a couple posts of yours. When looking online, how do I tell if a scope has decent depth of field? Thanks.

I wouldn't sweat it too much. It's not something that manufacturers can easily quantify. Do your research and buy the best scope you can afford.

You haven't mentioned if the rifle will be used for hunting. Many of the best high zoom FFP scopes can weigh 2-3 pounds as opposed to 1 1/4 for the VX5

I know little about FFP scopes, but would also advise to avoid Vortex unless you're in the 2K price range.
 
Last edited:
Maple57: I’m a guy who knows nothing about this ‘depth of field’ stuff, aside from a couple posts of yours. When looking online, how do I tell if a scope has decent depth of field? Thanks.

Well the reality of it is that manufacturers will not generally quantify depth of field since it is hard to quantify.

Technically depth of field is an infinity thin plane at exactly the ideal focus distance.

Everything is technically out of focus both before and after that thin theoretical plane. The question is by how much? That is somewhat subjective but obvious to the eye just the same.

The only advice I can really offer is to evaluate scopes you are considering side by side (use a premium scope as a bench mark) and know what to look for. For some guys that's a tree, I can see the tree, that's good enough... This guy will never be a precision rifle shooter. You need to see fine detail both before and after the ideal point of focus as far as possible. Then you can read mirage.

Unless it screams at you, things like chromatic aberration are to me nothing you want to pay much attention to as it will reveal itself in many other ways.

The most important thing to look for is detail in something with poor contract like bark on a tree or grain in a telephone pole.

You might also pull a couple optical resolution charts off the internet and print them. Maybe print a couple on grey paper to reduce the contrast. Post them at some distance away and evaluate them.

Look for sharpness, but more importantly how difficult it is to get the scope to focus acceptably well. Some scopes will never really focus they will just get better or worse but never good.

All too many scopes will fail badly at this simple test. Vortex Diamondback Tactical is the worst I have seen. Burris XTRii is better but not but 3 times the price better. Hence the XTRiii.

Hopefully you know some guys with scopes you might be considering so you can have a peek through theirs, or you can go to a store that stocks what you might be interested in.

And one final thought... Give no extra point to any FFP scope with more than 4X zoom... Anything below 4X from the max will render the reticle useless. FFP scopes should at least have an illuminated reticle to counter this point.

I wouldn't sweat it too much. It's not something that manufacturers can easily quantify. Do your research and buy the best scope you can afford.
.

Money alone will NOT solve this problem.

Short scopes with big lenses and high magnification are typically problematic regardless of price. Regardless of price.

Think about the sharpness of refraction angles... Bring lenses closer and the angles get exaggerated and DOF is reduced automatically... Optical fact.

Scope manufacturers are about making sales. They will slut themselves out to anyone with a credit card and go to great lengths to help you feel great about dropping $4000 on a scope that sucks, but you would never admit to for the simple fact that you paid $4000 for it. Besides fan boys who don't know the difference will tell you that you are crazy to bash it, so that might make you feel like you didn't get raped.

A solid benchmark for nice glass is Kahles 5-25, but there is better out there if you are fussy. I would say needlessly better, but better just the same if a got that kinda cash.

The real question with scope selection is short of a Kahles 5-25, what is really good enough?
 
Last edited:
Make sure you get an optic that has the same units of measurement on the scope reticle (crosshairs) and on your elevation and windage adjustments
So if you are considering an optic with some type of mil reticle, make sure your elevation and windage adjustments are also in mils
MOA Is also used for reticles too, so same applies for adjustments there as well
I started with a mil reticle, and MOA turrets.... wasn't too fond of it
Now have mil mil and am quite happy
FFP Is nice too
 
Good point Johnny

Guys in PRS tend to go with first focal plane Mils, but F Class and other precision shooters like bench rest are almost exclusively second focal plane MOA shooters.

But yes, these days its much more common than days of old to have matching turret and reticle format.

There are territorial disputes on both sides of the MOA vs Mils too.

Guys in PRS will often treat you like a red headed step child if you show up with and MOA scope.

The only real advice I can provide on the choice is pick one and use it for every scope you have. Don't try to mix and match between both. Once you get accustomed to one, its much more difficult to change your sense of scale to the other.

That being said, if you just do what your Kestrel says, the change is easy, but then you'll slow down the mental processing of scaling developed from shooting MOA scopes when you try and compete for PRS in Mils.
 
Last edited:
Thanks guys. I appreciate the extra info. I don't want to take away from the original post, so I won't get into my specifics in this thread, but your input is appreciated.
 
At my AGN airgun forum a post from couple days ago shows a huge discount ($700 USD) on Sightron long range scope.
Last time the same sale last spring, was the same, nobody wanted to ship any from USA to CA and our local dealers were not helping with a discounted price.
So I got myself a Falcon X50 10-50x60 from EU for about $1200 total tmd. Rated up to 1000 meters, I try it = test it, only connected on a tripod and distance about 4-500 and a glass is impressive clear the entire range all the way to end, and is Made in Japan.
Here is a link you may have a better luck:
https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/699-00-sightron-siii-10-50x60-illuminated-moa2/?referrer=1
 
Theres a guy on YT, cyclops something or other. He does scooe reviews, posta videos of glass clarity, and tracking. Might be worth checking for a review of a particular scope your interested in and getting a good impression of it before you buy. I currently have a Nikon P5 2.5-10 on my T3X, but just bought a Burris Eliminator 3 4-16. I cant tell you how hard I looked for reviews on glass before I bought it and really didnt find anything. When you spend 500, 1000, 2000+ on a scope, you really want every aspect of it to be worth the money. Nothingnworse then buying something everyone recommends and raves about, and it falling short of your expectations in the end....
 
Cyclopse is hard pressed to say something bad about a scope. I've seen one video brag it up, then another later bashing it.

Keep in mind that he is not a hard core long range shooter and is easily impressed by a scope that works ok for close range, but fails badly for precision long range shooting... He even admits that he does not review such scopes because they exceed his level of expertise.

Nice guy and all, but take it with a grain of salt. I recently bought an Element Nexus based on his video and returned it the next day. Real nice scope, but not suitable for long range.
 
There are others as well doing reviews on scopes for years, and btw
to review and compare scopes you really don't need to be a high class shooter.
I would trust in somebody's words who had tens or hundreds of scopes running through he's hands.
 
Back
Top Bottom