Going to apply for PAL, slowly evaluating buying options (semi-auto)

multicam333

multicam333

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Hey there, I recently passed the non-restricted exam and am awaiting the results for my restricted one. I know I'm still a few months away from my PAL but I have begun reading around as to what type of firearm I would be buying.

Initially, I'm thinking "black rifle", but because of budget and transportation concerns, I don't know if I'll be heading the restricted or non-restricted way. I'm in Montreal QC, I have no car (don't need any for day-to-day activities), so when I need one I either rent one for the day or use a bill as you go service we have in the city. This means I'm pretty much restricted (no pun intended) to the CTM/CRAFM. Membership is outrageously expensive, and since I would not be going much more than twice a month, I'm not sure the membership would be worth it...but then again, I'm gonna need it if I'm gonna be shooting an AR variant.

After all my reading, my ideal would be a Robarms XCR-M, but h*ll they're pricey...! Even used, I've never seen any go below 2600$. Then, there's also the XCR-L, either in .223 or 6.8, which can go around the 2K $ mark usually with a nice load of accessories. They're both nice, but it kinda sucks when you see nice AR15s selling for around 1300$...though I would be forced to pay that 415$/year membership just to keep it so it's kinda counterproductive...

Then, yesterday, I discovered the existence of the SOCOM II. I kinda couldn't keep my eyes away from springfield's website...! I do realize that it's a whole other animal than the aforementioned black rifles, but still, its a semi-auto, has quad rails, but...has a 16" barrel dammit. From what I've read, changing barrels (lets say to a 18.5" to make it non-restricted) on those is not so easy...and might cost a bunch in gunsmithing fees...

What do you guys think? Insights, suggestions? And unfortunately, I can't spend something like 3K $ (alas, not all at once) or else the lady of the house is gonna slap me like there's no tomorrow! XD
 
The Chinese M-14 clones vary in quality out of the box from good to go, to needs some tweaks, to return to sender.

I bought one of the "Socom" versions Canada Ammo was selling with an 18.5 inch barrel and I got lucky as far as barrel indexing and the gun shot nicely to point of aim at 100 yards right out of the box. There was a problem with the trigger group where the hammer was misalined with the trigger and the resulting friction was causing light strikes. I swapped it out with another trigger group I had and that solved the problem... a couple of emails with Canada Ammo and they sent me a pre paid Canada Post stamp for me to return the bad trigger group. The new one arrived yesterday and it looks good.

The Chinese guns are fun if you don't mind some minor tweaking and tuning and for around $500 it's hard to go wrong specially if you buy it from a dealer that stands behind their sales.
 
One more thing.

Shooting is expensive.

In the long run the cost of the firearm is a small part of the total costs even for a $2000.00 rifle.

Another thing with the M 305's ( Chinese clones) if you get one for around $500 that is straight and shoots well you will not loose much money on it if you decide to sell it down the road..... the prices on these guns is expected to rise and the main reason they have been so cheap for us in Canada is due to trade restrictions that don't allow these guns to go into the US market.
 
Honestly, I would strongly recommend a look at the CSA VZ58, probably in 7.62x39, but that is more of a red rifle that can be "Blacked" out.

If you are set on a black rifle, I would strongly suggest the .223/5.56 caliber due to the price and mag availability over the .308/7.62x51.

Look strongly at the used black rifle market for what suits you, not what you can bend your tastes too.

I would suggest the tavor. They are more expensive, but be patient and watch the ee for a deal, it will come along. One of the better deals I have seen was a tavor gen 2 for $2400 with only 40 rounds shot.
 
I just bought a Russian SKS today! Cheap to shoot, and the rifle is only $200 bucks. Can't wait to get it out to the range!
 
Candown said:
The Chinese M-14 clones vary in quality out of the box from good to go, to needs some tweaks, to return to sender.

I bought one of the "Socom" versions Canada Ammo was selling with an 18.5 inch barrel and I got lucky as far as barrel indexing and the gun shot nicely to point of aim at 100 yards right out of the box. There was a problem with the trigger group where the hammer was misalined with the trigger and the resulting friction was causing light strikes. I swapped it out with another trigger group I had and that solved the problem... a couple of emails with Canada Ammo and they sent me a pre paid Canada Post stamp for me to return the bad trigger group. The new one arrived yesterday and it looks good.

The Chinese guns are fun if you don't mind some minor tweaking and tuning and for around $500 it's hard to go wrong specially if you buy it from a dealer that stands behind their sales.
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onetwentyish said:
Honestly, I would strongly recommend a look at the CSA VZ58, probably in 7.62x39, but that is more of a red rifle that can be "Blacked" out.

If you are set on a black rifle, I would strongly suggest the .223/5.56 caliber due to the price and mag availability over the .308/7.62x51.

Look strongly at the used black rifle market for what suits you, not what you can bend your tastes too.

I would suggest the tavor. They are more expensive, but be patient and watch the ee for a deal, it will come along. One of the better deals I have seen was a tavor gen 2 for $2400 with only 40 rounds shot.
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Thank you all for your suggestions, very helpful. I'm not really a fan of the CZ 58 and its variants (execpt maybe for the CZ 858 tactical but it got f'in prohibited). I have to confess that it's because it of the looks...too much like an AK and no rails (would need at least 12 and 6 o'clock, preferably quad rail, should I want to play around with a laser). As for the Tavor, I've heard very good comments, I also personally held it in my hands, but I'm not so sure I like the whole bullpup concept...feels really well balanced though. At that price, I'd rather buy an XCR-L or even M. Also, since there is now an XCR-M pistol, a 10-round SR pistol mag is in the works, if you see what I mean...!

As for the Chinese M14s, I took a look at Canada ammo's site and I have to say that the Dominion Arms SOCOM 18 looks pretty interesting! I'd have to see if the stock could be changed to a collapsible one and if getting rails would be possible. If it shoots well, and is customizable, at 500 bucks it's a steal and it leaves me lots of money for accessories.

I indeed also noticed that anything 308/7.62Nato is more expensive (I was even considering an AR10 but was put off by the price)...but to me the caliber is appealing as the way I see it, I can either have "semi-CQB" fun with it, as well has honing my long-range skills. Dunno if it's a misconception or not but that's how I see it.

Still open to other suggestions or feel free to comment on those aforementioned impressions!
 
m14.ca make nice aftermarket stocks that will accept AR buffer tubes and grips. Made in Canada and good quality.
Here's a short m 14 with a blackfeather stock and folder.
M14.ca_Blackfeather_Plus_Hera_Arms_Folding_Adapter.jpg
 
As others have mentioned the sks is a great cheap option since 7.62x39 surplus can be cheap, only downfall is most gun ranges here in montreal dont allow the use of milsurp ammo especially not steel plated rounds... so you will need to buy the more expensive non military kind

not to mention how well you will know your rifle since you will need to clean it after every outing since the ammo is very corrosive
 
Can-down said:
Here's another blackfeather build, Lots of options for the m 14 platform.
IMG_1112.JPG
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Dude...I think you might've made my day with this one. The kit is like, 640 bucks?! So for 1140$ I have everything I'm looking for, instead of paying 2700$ +++ for an XCR-M!!! Will read on the site to get more details! Alas, this is provided I get a Norc that shoots straight lol...
 
little buster said:
As others have mentioned the sks is a great cheap option since 7.62x39 surplus can be cheap, only downfall is most gun ranges here in montreal dont allow the use of milsurp ammo especially not steel plated rounds... so you will need to buy the more expensive non military kind

not to mention how well you will know your rifle since you will need to clean it after every outing since the ammo is very corrosive
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Steel cored not steel plated (its copper jacketed) besides ranges cant care less if its surplus as long as its lead core. Besides non mil. ammo is not corrosive either and youre not stuck shooting at paper in a boring range you can just get out of town.
 
Steelplink said:
Steel cored not steel plated (its copper jacketed) besides ranges cant care less if its surplus as long as its lead core. Besides non mil. ammo is not corrosive either and youre not stuck shooting at paper in a boring range you can just get out of town.
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Ive seen many ranges where they have no military surplus ammunition allowed as one of their rules, im talking about montreal here
ex: crafam doesnt allow it
 
little buster said:
Ive seen many ranges where they have no military surplus ammunition allowed as one of their rules, im talking about montreal here
ex: crafam doesnt allow it
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That's because steel core ammo will ruin their backstop. Outdoor ranges are usually more permissive. And yes it's a shame we don't have any real alternatives as far as ranges go in Montreal. CRAFM is cool but so expensive.
 
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