Good to use higher grain (150+) for a Garand?

JoeFriday

JoeFriday

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I was reading online that most M2 ball surplus ammo is 150 grain. As with most surplus. I have only shot some 150 grain soft point with it. Is it alright to use a higher grain? say 165 or 180? I'm still fairly new to this, so any help would be great.

Thanks!
 
heavier bullets change the pressure curve, the garand doesn't have a vent so it takes the full blast of pressure and can wear or break the op-rod. for $25 or so you can get a shuster adjustable gas valve from Brownells which can be tailored to the heavier loads.
 
165 gr loads work fine as long as faster powder is used. IMR 4064 is the slowest you should go. Don't use 165 or 180 factory loads - they're using too slow powder.
 
All factory loads in .30-'06 use powder which is too slow-burning for the Garand. The rifle was designed specifically to use the .30 M2 load, which was a 150-gr. bullet loaded with specific powder. There are duplicate loads listed in reloading manuals, or you can try to find PMC 3006C (exact .30 M2 new ball) or 3006A ( .30 M2 softpoint).unfortunately PMC is hard to find right now.

Any .30-'06 load other than the PMC loads mentioned above may potentially damage the op rod, although many people will tell you that they have put all kinds of .30-'06 through their Garands with no visible problems. I prefer to be very cautious.
 
Well the can of worms is open..... for factory loads, the above mentioned PMC is safe, as is Winchester USA "white box" and Remington UMC, both are 150 grain loadings that essentially duplicate M2 ball. Black hills 168 match is also designed for M1's, but there isn't a Canadian distributor for it (that I know of) US match loadings use 172 grain bullets. For powders, it is best to stick with IMR or H4895, and IMR 4064. Do not use any factory loads not listed, even if they are only 150 grain, as the powders used have the wrong pressure curve. Also keep in mind that loads in modern loading manuals, even with the powders I mentioned are too hot. M2 ball only chugged along at 2700 fps or so.
 
Garand loads

J.P., have you checked with Winchester and UMC to find out if the powder in those 150-gr. loads is the same burning rate as the PMC .30 M2 load? I am not a reloader and could certainly be wrong, but I thought that the mv ratings on those loads was 2920 fps, which would put them in the same class as the 150-gr. hunting loads which are known to have the wrong slow-burning powders for the Garand. Is this last sentence a correct analogy; if so, that would make the PMC loads the only suitable and available garand factory loads in Canada?

Just my cautious nature on a contentious issue, plus the scarcity of Garand replacement parts in Canada. Comments welcome.
 
"...The rifle was designed specifically to use the .30 M2 load..." No it wasn't. It was designed to use .30 M1 ammo with a 174.5 grain bullet at 2647fps. The rifle was accepted and put into production in 1936. There was no such thing as M-2 ammo until 1939. M2 ammo used a 152 grain bullet at 2800fps
The rifle can use bullets up to 180 grains if you believe the Internet rumour about bending op rods with heavier bullets. I have never seen nor heard of any M-1 being damaged by the ammo alone until I got on the 'net. The box or two of 220 grain Silvertips I used did nothing to my rifle. I've never had any problem with any factory ammo either.
The rifle likes 165 grain hunting bullets and 168 grain match bullets with IMR4064 or IMR4895. 175 grain Matchkings will do as well. There are other powders, like Varget, that seem to give good accuracy too.
 
Like I said, its another can-o-worms type debate. All info i posted is correct as far as I know. I would urge people to do their own research on the subject. Check out the various Garand collectors forums, and other resources, as this information is readily available if one only looks.
 
in reference to the garand ammo question, i have a very very clear/ good article on ammo /reloading ammo to copy military issue rounds.
its from america rifleman. anyone want it ask ill scan it an send it to the email you provide. it speaks of the topics you all describe.
ok?
 
sunray said:
"...The rifle was designed specifically to use the .30 M2 load..." No it wasn't. It was designed to use .30 M1 ammo with a 174.5 grain bullet at 2647fps. The rifle was accepted and put into production in 1936. There was no such thing as M-2 ammo until 1939. M2 ammo used a 152 grain bullet at 2800fps
Click to expand...

The original 1930's garand also had a very different gas system configuration than the ones almost all of us are using now, but I don't know if it makes a difference with the alleged port pressure issue.

I've shot a few boxes of 180gr bullets though mine will no damage to the op rod. I've even shot a couple hundred 165gr handloads loaded with slow H-4831 and did not experience any problems.
 
i can tell everyone that i have damaged an op rod using a handload i was using as well for my a-bolt.it was a 180grain spitzer with 760 winchester ball.i felt pretty stupid when i found the page in my reloading manual specific to garands.the end result was the rod would seperate from the bolt when it tried to cycle upon firing.i'd have to look up the load data i was using at the time,but i can say it was not a hot load.
 
One must keep in mind that the Garand the the 03 were in service at the same time. So anything that can be used in the Springfield will also have been used in the M1.
 
file reduced and send-able i hope

ok all who want to get this send your email i got it reduced an should email ok now.
sry for any inconvience

:dancingbanana:
NB.nagantsniper said:
did the folks who wanted my info get it ? not sure if the emails i sent got thru due to size of pictures /info i scanned just checking.
Click to expand...
 
most often the op rod is bent making it unable to cycle properly.in my case there was damage where the rod engages the bolt that is noticable upon inspection.the reccess where the bolt lug engages was becoming disformed allowing the rod to separate from the bolt while cycling,although my old rod is propably bent as well.lucky for me marstar still had op rods in stock at the time.
 
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