Gouges in a chamber - can they be filled?

P

Potashminer

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An acquaintance asked me to look at a 17 HMR rifle. Gun is a older Savage Model 93R17 - in 17 HMR. His initial issue was that he had fired it - then opened the bolt - fired case had not extracted - he used a small flat blade screw driver from his back pocket to pry out the fired case - he said. Now can not even chamber a fresh cartridge.

With a bore scope I saw a very filthy carbon up chamber and splotches of red rust - I soaked it in penetrating oils / carbon dissolver (Carb Out) - spun in a .22 brass bore brush and multiple patches - chamber is more or less clean, now. I think the corruption that was in there was what held the fired cartridge - extractor simply jumped over that fired cartridge rim.

Now with bore scope, I see two parallel grooves within that chamber - at the entrance of chamber - end of those grooves - is two piles of metal - that is what is preventing next cartridge from entering chamber - so grooves had to have been done after previous case was fired - else would not have been able to chamber it. As if he reached in with that small screw driver to scrape out some crap - but will not own up to having done that ...

I believe on my lathe that I can turn a reamer - harden it and pop out those piles of metal - that will allow next case to enter - but I believe, when fired, that case will swell into those grooves that he caused and case will not extract - will then be "my fault" for wrecking his rifle.

So my question - if I peel out those piles of metal - is there a way that I can fill those grooves that are scraped into that chamber?? How would I prep it - what filler material would I use? As is, a cartridge can not be chambered - is as I received it. Is this even possible to fix??
 
I think you are correct that a fired case will expand into the grooves, possibly making extraction difficult or impossible.

First get his permission to try JB Weld or Devcon. You never know, but it might work. Even if you preclean with the world's best cleaner, it might work for a few rounds, then fall out when the chamber gets hot, or the pressure is simply too high.

The next step might be a press fit sleeve, if one can be made to stand up to the pressure. I am not sure what a 17 runs at.

I hope I have put in enough mights and maybe type words to absolve me from any liability. Surely someone will be along to suggest screwing on a new barrel. Good luck.
 
Thank you - "screwing on a new barrel" - is not going to happen - near as I can tell those barrels are pressed into the receiver - have cross pins on bottom edge - just ahead of magazine opening / bottom edge of receiver front ring - way over my head to press this barrel out and then press a new one in - I do not own the type of tooling to do that.
 
Can running a reamer just a couple thous over chamber size 'clean' some of those grooves enough to let fired cases out? Without making too much room for back-flow of gas ? Will the case expand that much ?
 
Tell him it's not repairable without a gunsmith and I'll buy it for $100 :).

But seriously, if the chamber does have some gouges in it, the proper way to fix it would be to set the barrel back and rechamber it. That's what I'd do if he wants to sell it. For me, as an amateur, it will be an all day job. A good gunsmith might need 4 hours of labor to do it. Wild a$$ guess; everything seems to take me a long time LOL!

It could also be sleeved as long as the joint is tight and located on the part of the chamber covered by the brass. If the joint is at the throat, the hot gasses will eat away at it over time. This actually happened to some Chilean Mausers that were sleeved from 30-06 to 308. In my estimation, making a sleeve, boring the barrel for the sleeve, installing the sleeve, and reaming the new chamber will take a lot longer than setting back the barrel.

Let us know what you decide to try and how it goes.

Edit: Yes, the barrel is pressed and pinned in place. But removing it is totally doable. I haven't done it but I've heard of people pressing it with a shop press.
 
Potashminer said:
Thank you - "screwing on a new barrel" - is not going to happen - near as I can tell those barrels are pressed into the receiver - have cross pins on bottom edge - just ahead of magazine opening / bottom edge of receiver front ring - way over my head to press this barrel out and then press a new one in - I do not own the type of tooling to do that.
Click to expand...

You can make bushings and drive the barrel out of the receiver, then make the new barrel a push fit and use bearing Loctite to install it.

Being able to take the barrel in and out until the extractor slots are done is a benefit... once it is all correct out comes the Loctite.
 
I have made up "D" shaped burnishing tools to iron out rimfire chambers that were damaged from dry firing. You are pushing metal back into place rather than removing it. A bit of polishing after would likely help also, often scratches are not all that deep. If you get it to the point that it extracts empties. Some minor marks on rimfire brass is no major consequence.
 
There is a ego reward in solving a complicated problem. However, we live in a consumer world where things break or fixing them is uneconomical. The owner damaged his rifle in a very difficult place to repair. His dumbness. He gouged the raw metal in the chamber and it is obstructing loading. We can't be talking about a large volume of material. Cut a wooden or aluminum dowel to undersize, cut a slot, select your thinnest emery cloth or finest sandpaper. Don't make six wraps, only one or two. Hand turn the tool, withdrawing and checking often. This may take down the high spots, but it might also push down the rest and be harder to contact. Running the tool too much will ream out the entire chamber.

You might get lucky, or it might be unsalvageable.
 
Is common to "iron" bumps in 22rf barrels caused by dry firing.
Uses a plug, chamber size, with a flat at one point.
Insert and rotate, usually works.
Maybe something similar?
 
pathfinder76 said:
Hand it back to him and walk away
Click to expand...

I was very close to doing this after cleaning chamber and seeing those grooves and piles of metal - as posted elsewhere - was his doing, not mine. But I have some 17 HMR "dummy cartridges" on the way to use to resolve a feeding issue in my own new-to-me 17 HMR - maybe once I get mine sorted out, I will go back to his. My inexperience is showing - I am concerned to not affect the rest of the chamber - any attempt to "polish" or "ream", I suspect will make more marks in there - opposite side of the chamber to where the problem exists ...
 
oldstarfire said:
Is common to "iron" bumps in 22rf barrels caused by dry firing.
Uses a plug, chamber size, with a flat at one point.
Insert and rotate, usually works.
Maybe something similar?
Click to expand...

That's different from what the OP is describing but it's a good idea if it were the propblem.

Nelson, you didn't mention if the barrel is a "press fit" or screw thread.

If it's a screw thread, take the barrel off and set it back, then rechamer it for his cartridge.

Without seeing the chamber, up close and personal, it's hard to give you any real guidance.

I've seen some pretty badly rusted/pitted 22rf chambers, one very notable 22WRM.

I've cleaned up chambers by coating a tight fitting patch with Diamond Grit Paste and spinning it in the chamber with a hand drill.

The grit takes of the sharp edges and allows the cartridge hull to be extracted without hanging up

What have you got to lose?

The only problem you might run into is that the owner blames you for his screw up. Be careful with that one and make sure you get him to understand the repercussions of anything you might try.
 
Potashminer said:
An acquaintance asked me to look at a 17 HMR rifle. Gun is a older Savage Model 93R17 - in 17 HMR. His initial issue was that he had fired it - then opened the bolt - fired case had not extracted - he used a small flat blade screw driver from his back pocket to pry out the fired case - he said. Now can not even chamber a fresh cartridge.

With a bore scope I saw a very filthy carbon up chamber and splotches of red rust - I soaked it in penetrating oils / carbon dissolver (Carb Out) - spun in a .22 brass bore brush and multiple patches - chamber is more or less clean, now. I think the corruption that was in there was what held the fired cartridge - extractor simply jumped over that fired cartridge rim.

Now with bore scope, I see two parallel grooves within that chamber - at the entrance of chamber - end of those grooves - is two piles of metal - that is what is preventing next cartridge from entering chamber - so grooves had to have been done after previous case was fired - else would not have been able to chamber it. As if he reached in with that small screw driver to scrape out some crap - but will not own up to having done that ...

I believe on my lathe that I can turn a reamer - harden it and pop out those piles of metal - that will allow next case to enter - but I believe, when fired, that case will swell into those grooves that he caused and case will not extract - will then be "my fault" for wrecking his rifle.

So my question - if I peel out those piles of metal - is there a way that I can fill those grooves that are scraped into that chamber?? How would I prep it - what filler material would I use? As is, a cartridge can not be chambered - is as I received it. Is this even possible to fix??
Click to expand...

I kinda lean towards the "hand it back to him" suggestion.

If you want to take on the job, I think that the idea of a quickie polish of the chamber might be all it takes. If you can bang out a D-bit reamer for the body diameter, you can ream off the raised metal. If you made that D-bit at SAMMI Maximum chamber, it might clean it up almost entirely.

If the gouges are so deep as to still cause problems, there is also the prospect of putting a liner in the chamber only. At one time, guys used to suggest using brake tube, from the auto parts place, but if you have a donor chunk of barrel stock, even better.

Process would be to ream out the chamber oversize, shape the insert to match the reamer, and stick it in place with a bearing retaining compound (permanent Locktite, eg) then ream a new chamber.

Sorta smells of a no win situation, given the care he has not taken of his rifle. Anything you do, if he's not happy with how it shoots, it's going to be your fault, eh?
 
You are assuming that once the proud areas of metal are removed/swaged, that the remaining gouges will hamper extraction. Given the relatively low pressure of a 22, this may not be the case. Explain the situation to your buddy, and if he agrees, deal with the high spots and check for functionality.
 
cosmic said:
You are assuming that once the proud areas of metal are removed/swaged, that the remaining gouges will hamper extraction. Given the relatively low pressure of a 22, this may not be the case. Explain the situation to your buddy, and if he agrees, deal with the high spots and check for functionality.
Click to expand...

Yup.
 
cosmic said:
You are assuming that once the proud areas of metal are removed/swaged, that the remaining gouges will hamper extraction. Given the relatively low pressure of a 22, this may not be the case. Explain the situation to your buddy, and if he agrees, deal with the high spots and check for functionality.
Click to expand...

bearhunter said:
Yup.
Click to expand...

and "YUP" again.

The way I see it is get rid of the humps & check for reliable extraction .

If not:

polish out the grooves a bit and check again

If still not:

Ream the chamber out a few thou - owner does not sound like a high precision target shooter anyway ;)

If still no love

Sleeve .... :(

If it's a paying job, I would probably walk away as suggested.... not worth the time.
 
In this case, PM wouldn't even have to sleeve the whole barrel, just the chamber.

I've done this on half a dozen rimfire rifles.

There are a couple of ways to fix the sleeves in place. Epoxy or sweating for a very strong compression fit
 
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