Griffin & Howe

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redge

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I just bought a shotgun from G&H and I thought that I'd offer some comments on what they are like to deal with.

Griffin & Howe has been in business since 1923. It has two stores. The main store is in Bernardsville, New Jersey, about one hour from Manhattan. There is a smaller, satellite store in Greenwich, Connecticut, 30 minutes from the city.

The Bernardsville store is where most of the guns are kept, and it is also well-stocked with clothing, accessories, etc. The Greenwich store has a smaller selection. On the other hand, it has its own attractions, including being on a block in Greenwich that has dealers for most of the world's great cars: Ferrari, Masserati, Rolls, Bentley, Aston-Matin, Lamborghini, Porsche, etc. Makes for good window shopping.

G&H also owns, or has an interest in, Hudson Farm, a 3800 acre property 30 minutes from Bernardsville. The Farm offers a shooting school, sporting clays and trap, and hunting. It has a separate web site.

Some impressions: G&H sells an extensive array of guns, new and used, and they are strong on both hunting and clays guns. They also sell quality rifles. The staff at both stores are professional, knowledgeable, enthusiastic and just plain nice. They treat customers with respect, regardless of whether they want a $2300 Beretta Pigeon or a $100,000 Purdy. They are completely comfortable with doing exports. G&H is not the cheapest vendor out there, but it is a serious candidate if one is looking for a vendor for a longterm relationship that will stand behind what it sells, and stresses customer service.

A word about Hudson Farm. Yesterday, a New York friend and I spent two hours there with G&H's chief instructor, Allen Pana. We were so happy with the experience that I have delayed my return to Canada so that we can go back on Tuesday and Wednesday for another four hours. Allen is a great guy, and a born teacher. In addition, the Farm itself is beautiful. Lots of wildlife, and apparently some pretty good fly fishing.

My impressions of this dealer are entirely positive. If anyone knows of anything similar in Canada, I'd like to know about it.

Cheers
 
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I bought a 20 gauge G&H Round Body Game Gun. They have an arrangement with Arrieta, which makes this gun for them. The specs are on the G&H web site.

Allen Pana wanted us to shoot 12 gauge at Hudson Farm, but we did spend some time with the 20, and I'll probably use it a bit more when I go back on Tuesday and Wednesday. Then I won't see it again until the U.S. Commerce Department issues an export permit.

Based on about 20 rounds at this point, I am really happy with how the gun feels/handles. The friend that I went out to Hudson with also tried it, and his response was: "I want one". It's a nice shotgun.

Once I've put at least 600 shells through the gun, I'll go back to G&H, and Allen, who is also their gunfitter, will determine what alterations should be made. Right now, the gun doesn't even have a pad. They want me to use it for a few months before they make any changes.

I went to a couple of other dealers on this trip before I ran into G&H, including Beretta's Manhatten store/boutique on Madison Avenue. G&H is just in a different league. G&H sells Berettas, and they are quite positive about them, and if I had a choice between buying a Beretta from Beretta Manhattan or G&H, I'd buy from G&H, no question.
 
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Redge, congratulations, a very nice gun indeed. Arrieta produces fine firearms. I wish you speedy and glitch free paperwork, and look forward to seeing the pics you will no doubt post for us when the gun arrives.

Sharptail
 
Not aware of any such similar "Carriage Trade" firearms/outdoor retailers in Canada. There are more than a few stateside however.

PS Nice Arrietta ... enjoy !
 
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I was in the area several years ago and dropped into the Bernardsville shop for a look see. If you are into double guns and rifles there is more than enough to drool over and like you, Redge, I was impressed by the staff. They seem to be as into the guns as we are without worrying about whether I had enough money to be allowed to set foot in their store. I'd go back in a second and would be happy to buy from them if they had something I wanted.
 
Sharptail said:
I wish you speedy and glitch free paperwork...
Click to expand...

Hi Sharptail,

I'm going to use these few words of yours as a springboard to say something, not directed at you at all.

The paperwork is going just fine. It is beyond my comprehension why someone would pay someone a bunch of money to import a shotgun. The paperwork could be figured out by 12 year old, you can do it in a way that sets you up for expeditious imports in the future, and there is all the more reason to do it yourself if you want to be able to bring the gun back into the U.S., whether for a fitting or to go hunting or for clays sports, because you can see and handle all of this as one package.

For all the #####ing that people do about Canadian gun laws, the truth of the matter is that our system, when it comes to transactions, is extremely efficient and paper/delay free, and all of the issues are on the American side, which are in turn easy enough to deal with, if less efficiently, assuming that one is buying from a dealer that isn't brain dead.

It took me a week to be registered with the Foreign Affairs EXCOL system, which allows me to apply for an import permit online for this and future transactions, and I'm told that having registered, I can have an import permit for this transaction within a week. Why do I need an import permit in the first place? Because the U.S. government, not the Canadian government, insists on it. As for the U.S export permit, which the vendor needs, that will apparently take 6-8 weeks.

Once I have the gun in Canada, I will need a permit from the ATF to bring it back to the U.S. I'll need this for the fitting, and if I want to go to a clays facility or go hunting. To get this permit, I have to acquire, and pay for, a U.S. Hunting license, which requires presentation of proof of completion of a Hunter Ed course except in North Dakota and Alaska, and a 6-8 week wait. What does the Canadian government require of an American who wants to enter Canada for the same purposes? Ten minutes at the border to get a temporary permit for $25, unless the American has a PAL (which some American friends of mine have), in which case there is no fee or need for a permit.

The more that I find out about the Canadian system and the U.S. system, which I have had to learn quite a lot about lately, the more I am convinced that the people who complain about how it works here either have blinkers on or are professional whiners.

Cheers
 
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I am going to add something specific about imports in a separate post because it has to do with a company that advertises on this site, and I don't know whether the site owner may therefore have a problem with what I have to say.

People who are paying Questar to import a shotgun are paying a lot of money to do something that they could do very easily, assuming that they are dealing with a reputable exporter, for free.

In addidtion, if one registers with EXCOL, one can not only do a one-off import, but set oneself up for future imports.

One can also do the import in a way that ensures that registration in Canada, the import, and application for an ATF permit to take the gun back into the U.S. are all done at once, instead of in series.

There is a cottage industry that has developed that involves charging people to cut through red tape. The truth is, the red tape isn't complicated, and anyone with half a brain can deal with it himself/herself at no cost.

If there is interest, I'd be willing to document how this transaction is being done in a separate thread.

It isn't difficult, and companies that suggest that it is, and charge a bunch of cash to do what they call "facilitating", are blowing smoke..
 
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redge said:
If there is interest, I'd be willing to document how this transaction is being done in a separate thread.

It isn't difficult, and companies that suggest that it is, and charge a bunch of cash to do what they call "facilitating", are blowing smoke..
Click to expand...

Have you posted on this? I for one would like to read it since I've been vacillating on this one for awhile. fred
 
Redge, I have done exactly as you have for both importation of firearms as well as dealing with ATF to go into the US with them. I couldn't agree more.

While I still wish for the good old days, the current Canadian system for importation is relatively simple and relatively quick. Everyone who has figured out how to join this site and post comments and photos could easily figure out the forms.
 
I've gone both routes bringing guns in from Europe. One was time consuming but less expensive, the other cost more but was much easier. What took up the time was going to the airport and dealing with the shipper and Customs.

If you don't have much experience with government or know who and how to contact them then it's a daunting experience. What would be very helpful would be a step-by-step "how to" with links and phone numbers on the entire process. I'm sure it's changed since I did it last.
 
OK, I'm going to start a thread in the "legalese" section of the forum that documents this import, and getting the ATF permit to bring the gun back into the U.S., from beginning to end.

I'm in the U.S. at the moment, and will probably start the thread when I get back to Canada this weekend. I foresee a first post that explains what has happened to date, and further posts from time to time that record events/processes until the import has been completed and the ATF permit has been received.

I have had a Canadian Firearms License for a grand total of six weeks, and this is the first gun that I have ever bought, so I figure that if I can figure out how to import a gun from the U.S., and get an ATF permit, there's a pretty good chance that other people can too :) For people who have done this in the past, it might be useful as an update on current practice.

Cheers
 
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The dealer told me today that they can get a US export permit, from when I send them a Canadian import permit, in about a week, and that I can give them the Canadian permit via e-mail with the permit attached as a scan. This timing is significantly faster than what some internet sites claim is how long it takes.

I also came back to Canada today, where customs was a pleasure to deal with, and where they gave me a document which will let me claim my $750 tax exemption, having been in the US for at least seven days, when the shotgun arrives.

Meanwhile, the gun is already registered in Canada, which I did right after buying it. It took about five minutes on the phone to verify the gun, and about another five minutes to register it online. And yes, the RCMP Firearms Centre 800 number to call for the verification works from the U.S.

I haven't yet sent the application to the ATF for a permit to bring the gun back into the U.S., but that's because I was busy doing other stuff in New York, not because I couldn't have done it already. Besides, I want to ask the ATF a question first to determine whether I really need this permit. I'm pretty sure that the answer is yes, but it can't hurt to ask.

This is all going very smoothly.

I'll start a thread about the steps in the Legalese section of the forum tomorrow or Saturday.
 
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