Grim future for the value of vintage British shotguns

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saskbooknut

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Here is a link to the latest auction results of Ryedale Auctioneers in Yorkshire. Most better quality guns did not sell, apparently because they did not meet a reserve.
Guns that did sell, almost without exception, sold for next to nothing.

https://www.ryedaleauctioneers.com/catalogue/B8046C1C26E14436D380CE6B78C60923/02D8863B5DE7D5D97F6EF64910788336/sporting-gun-accessories-sale-lot-291/?action=7&sort=lotno

The next Holt's firearms auctions are 21/22 June. I expect the trend to continue.
 
Londonshooter said:
You mean, the future for the value of vintage British shotguns, in the UK.
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Agreed. This could be a positive for people on our side of thee pond for now. I handled a really nice Army/Navy boxlock last week at my gun club that was recently picked up for $1000. I wouldn't mind having that gun on my shelf at that price.
 
The US market for ordinary British boxlocks has fallen also. Small bore guns in better condition are still selling reasonably well.
There's a reason that modest and out of proof British guns are appearing on the N. American market in quantity.
British prices for quality British doubles have held up quite well until recently.
The market collapse may not apply to Best guns, but only time will tell.

I do not think that we in Canada will escape the market chill.
The general message is to buy the gun that you like and want to shoot, but don't be looking at modest British doubles as an "investment".
 
saskbooknut said:
The US market for ordinary British boxlocks has fallen also. Small bore guns in better condition are still selling reasonably well.
There's a reason that modest and out of proof British guns are appearing on the N. American market in quantity.
British prices for quality British doubles have held up quite well until recently.
The market collapse may not apply to Best guns, but only time will tell.

I do not think that we in Canada will escape the market chill.
The general message is to buy the gun that you like and want to shoot, but don't be looking at modest British doubles as an "investment".
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I'm in full agreement. The circumstances in GB are due to a wholesale switch by shooters to modern O/U guns (good for the marketing departments...they should get bonuses for a job well done) combined with the lead ban. I think we see the same factors at play in NA and especially Canada. We WILL get a lead ban, the only question is when. Any attempt to argue that point is to utterly ignore every regulatory change of the last 50 years in gun ownership, gun use and hunting.

On the other hand, if you are buying vintage English SxS to hunt with, the world is opening up to the possibilities. There will be some extraordinary guns available for very reasonable amounts. At least until the lead ban shows up.
 
With a lead ban hopefully softer non tox loads will drop in price. A flat of classic doubles will make you shiver when you hear the price. And that wasnt even a 2.5" shell
 
Not that I'd recommend it but the TGS channel on youtube did a several part series on shooting steel in non steel proofed sxs shotguns and the results were surprising with no measurable damage to the bores or chokes. These guns had not been modified at all so I suspect a gun that has had the forcing cone lengthened and chokes opened if needed would survive moderate steel use.
 
I would love to have one of these, but I would want to handle it to see if it fit me first.

Unfortunately, once they are landed here the mark up keeps me from pulling the trigger on one.
 
brybenn said:
With a lead ban hopefully softer non tox loads will drop in price. A flat of classic doubles will make you shiver when you hear the price. And that wasnt even a 2.5" shell
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That’s the wish but I laid in a good supply (multiple flats of 12 and 16 ga) of Kent TM 15 years ago when I was still doing a lot of waterfowl in Manitoba. Still a few left. Average cost, $1.70 per shell. I haven’t seen prices drop on increased demand. I think it’s now up around $7.00 per shell? Yes bismuth is cheaper but it’s inferior and still in the $3.50 a shell range.
 
Could the sag in British auction prices ( and by extension retail prices) also be affected by Brexit? Another possibility is a general slowdown of the economy caused by Covid. Hard times provoke hard choices. Undoubtedly consumer tastes swinging more and more to over/ unders is a factor but this has been ongoing for decades and is unlikely to now suddenly cause a surge. The aging out of gun certificate owners and rapidly declining opportunity to take a gun into the field are also factors. Probably one of the bigger factors, especially with auction prices, is the general collapse of the offshore market, primarily American but also oil rich Middle Eastern, China and former Soviet Bloc countries. The whole world is in financial turmoil right now and I suspect it's a combination of factors coming together at the same time, but it may not be permanent. In any case very very few of these guns are ever imported into Canada and almost none for resale so I don't expect that this one small sale, even if the leading edge of a trend will have any noticeable effect on our already sagging market.
 
The market for antiques, oil lamps, wood furniture etc declined as the folks interested in them, remembering them fondly, "aged out". Demographics suggest the same fate may await fine doubles, unfortunately....Good news for the tail end of the Boomers who've lusted after them. Under 40's who'd want one would be a small eclectic group.
 
I have, in the past, attempted to learn a little about vintage shotguns in the hope of purchasing one.
In the end, it was far easy to just buy a modern gun.
I have to imagine many are like me
 
I haven't noticed any drop in prices as of yet. If anything, prices seem to have increased. I am speaking of the Canadian market.

Prices at recent auctions seem pretty healthy.
 
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This sort of thing has happened before with other guns and other products. In the 60's, 70's 80's the pre 64 Winchester Model 70 was the darling of bolt action riflemen and custom builders. The people that appreciated and bought these are no longer buying guns much and nobody else cares. At one time the '55, '56 & '57 Chev was the darling of the vintage cruiser crowd. Now it's much newer muscle cars. Time marches on, it's called progress. However the very best of the best, guns, cars, boats, horses or women are always appreciated and valued as the best.
 
canvasback said:
That’s the wish but I laid in a good supply (multiple flats of 12 and 16 ga) of Kent TM 15 years ago when I was still doing a lot of waterfowl in Manitoba. Still a few left. Average cost, $1.70 per shell. I haven’t seen prices drop on increased demand. I think it’s now up around $7.00 per shell? Yes bismuth is cheaper but it’s inferior and still in the $3.50 a shell range.
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I bought a bunch of original winchester bismuth. It patterns absolutely horribly. I cut a shell open and whats in it is not round. Its jagged like pop rocks. Kills great when the birds are in tight. Passed 20 yards its a both barrel gamble. New kent bismuth seems to work well in my 20s. I havent tried the tm but would like to. Im even thinking about the tss 410 for early season teal and woodys. Its expensive but it opens the door to use a gun i normally wouldnt get to use
 
Collectibles are always a commodity and often do not have a connection to the intrinsic value (that we might see in those high quality, handmade Brit guns). Example? - 5.2 million for a piece of cardboard with Gretzki's image on it that is now a collector card. As said earlier in the string - if you are collecting you buy what you want to shoot, or run your hands lovingly over or whatever else you do with your collection. If you are investing, collectibles are a crapshoot and as with any commodity the depth of the market provides the greatest buffer to price shocks. I like Royal Canadian Mint silver coins, but am boggled how people can pay 3x the spot or melt price of silver and say its a great investment.

All that said, I think the comments on the global economic situation are bang on. The world economy contracted and all G20 countries printed cash like crazy and took on debt. Discretionary spending dropped and will take a longer time to recover than it took to contract. BUT - the debt and expanded money supply will come back to bite us all as inflation will kick in over the next couple years. At that time, real assets - not cash or digital value will start to show upward pressure on pricing as people buy whatever before it gets more expensive.
 
be2man said:
The market for antiques, oil lamps, wood furniture etc declined as the folks interested in them, remembering them fondly, "aged out". Demographics suggest the same fate may await fine doubles, unfortunately....Good news for the tail end of the Boomers who've lusted after them. Under 40's who'd want one would be a small eclectic group.
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Could not have said it better. My father, turning 80 this year is sitting on a collection of once very desirable 50's cars that are now fetching half of what they were just a few years ago. As he says "the buying demographic is not interested in that era of cars". That demographic of buyers that collected his era of cars is aging out and their kids don't want them so they unload them after inheriting them at whatever they can get for them. Guns are no different....
 
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