Groups from 200yd shoot (Rem700)
- Thread starter dbala
- Start date
- Location
- Houston, TX
That's not bad shooting, about 1.5 MOA with factory ammo.The rig looks like it should be able to put them all in the white at 200, how windy was it? Are you using a rear sandbag? Maybe try some different ammo & see how the rifle likes it. Keep us posted!
Its was blowing about 15-18mph -
I'll check out the Win whitebox ammo - I think I saw it at crappy tire (17$/box) - does that sound right? Its about 2x as much as the remington UMC that I use now.
No doubt the rig is capable of much tighter groups - clearly the shooter is the problem, not the gun
I'm going shooting again tomorrow & I'll post if I get better results -
In the long run I may start loading my own - but for now, I don't have enough experience under my belt.
D
I'll check out the Win whitebox ammo - I think I saw it at crappy tire (17$/box) - does that sound right? Its about 2x as much as the remington UMC that I use now.
No doubt the rig is capable of much tighter groups - clearly the shooter is the problem, not the gun
I'm going shooting again tomorrow & I'll post if I get better results -
In the long run I may start loading my own - but for now, I don't have enough experience under my belt.
D
Hey twoshots -what do you mean by proper trigger release/follow through?
I have the trigger adjusted to +/- 2.0lbs - and it breaks well. Do you mean trying to stay on target after I pull the trigger (the gun is on a bipod, so it bounces up when I shoot & I instantly lose the sight picture.) I do not use a rear sandbag - I fold my left arm under the stock (the butt of the grip is in the crook of my elbow & my left hand is close to my right shoulder)
I don't think I am wincing or preparing for the recoil (its only .223) - but who knows, I could be doing it subconciously.
I will try with a sandbag tomorrow for sure -
Cheers!
I have the trigger adjusted to +/- 2.0lbs - and it breaks well. Do you mean trying to stay on target after I pull the trigger (the gun is on a bipod, so it bounces up when I shoot & I instantly lose the sight picture.) I do not use a rear sandbag - I fold my left arm under the stock (the butt of the grip is in the crook of my elbow & my left hand is close to my right shoulder)
I don't think I am wincing or preparing for the recoil (its only .223) - but who knows, I could be doing it subconciously.
I will try with a sandbag tomorrow for sure -
Cheers!
Its was blowing about 15-18mph -
I'll check out the Win whitebox ammo - I think I saw it at crappy tire (17$/box) - does that sound right? Its about 2x as much as the remington UMC that I use now.
No doubt the rig is capable of much tighter groups - clearly the shooter is the problem, not the gun
I'm going shooting again tomorrow & I'll post if I get better results -
In the long run I may start loading my own - but for now, I don't have enough experience under my belt.
D
Walmart $23 for 40 rounds. haven;t bought any in a while, but I think the price is right...
2lbs, thats a heavy trigger
Thanks for posting the eight shot target as well. Much more realistic than a three shot group. If you really want to see what is going on you have to count all your shots, all the time, not just a few three shot groups that look good. I would like to see us make it a ten shot standard on this forum!
Definately get something to support your rear like a sock or bag. For unsupported shooting I usually take my non-trigger hand and put the sling and sling stud in the webbing between my thumb and index. I then grab my shirt/jacket in my armpit making sure my index finger touches the top of the pit.
In terms of trigger work. Be sure you are pulling straight back with consistent pressure all the way through, including holding the trigger at the back after the shot goes off. This way you know you're not snapping the trigger and pulling yourself off target. Also be sure to get in the habit of firing at either the top or bottom or middle of your last breath to minimize body movement. Whatever works best for you.
Also, don't be afraid or dismiss using different brand of ammo. Weight of bullet etc. I've just started reloading and I am amazed what a difference even the smallest change in bullet weight, or muzzle velocity, or brass selection makes in group size, all other things being equal. Just by changing the amount of powder, and thus the velocity, I was able to go from 1.25" groups down to around .6" groups.
Good work, happy shooting,
In terms of trigger work. Be sure you are pulling straight back with consistent pressure all the way through, including holding the trigger at the back after the shot goes off. This way you know you're not snapping the trigger and pulling yourself off target. Also be sure to get in the habit of firing at either the top or bottom or middle of your last breath to minimize body movement. Whatever works best for you.
Also, don't be afraid or dismiss using different brand of ammo. Weight of bullet etc. I've just started reloading and I am amazed what a difference even the smallest change in bullet weight, or muzzle velocity, or brass selection makes in group size, all other things being equal. Just by changing the amount of powder, and thus the velocity, I was able to go from 1.25" groups down to around .6" groups.
Good work, happy shooting,
shot release and follow through is the 4th marksmanship principle taught to infantry. Once you have established 1 - 3, ensure that you do not effect the rifles position when you SQUEEZE the trigger and absorb the recoil
a flinch can be detected by an observer loading your rifle with an occasional dummy round and watching for movement. Your shot should surprise you ie. squeeze slowly untill SURPRISE the rifle fires
4 marksmanship principles
1. Position and hold must be firm enough to support the rifle
2. Firer must have natural alignment to the target, without any physical effort
3. Sight alignment, or aiming must be correct
4. Shot release and follow through must not disturb the position
4 points of relationship in sight alignment
1. eye
2. center of rear aperture of optical sight
3. correct point of aiming reticle or aiming post
4. Selected point of aim
Procedure for testing the shooting position
1. initial checking of alignment and noting displacement
2. Correction of lateral errors (move legs left or right)
3. Correction of vertical errors (move body forward or back)
4. eyes closed check
5. re-adjust as necessary
ps. only use the bi-pod on soft surfaces to reduce the bounce, on hard surface use a bag or some other soft object for a rest.
for rear sandbag fill sock with dry sand tie off. Place in off hand below rifle but squeeze to lower relax to raise minute point of aim corrections. this will eliminate transfer errs from off hand into rifle(flinch, heartbeat, etc)
Last edited:
Awesome info guys - thanks, I will definitely be trying these tips. I'll post after my next shoot & see how things improve. I figure if I change one thing at a time systematically, I should be able to really dial in on good technique.
I figured the more shots in the group the more realistic it was (I've had some super tight two or 3 shot groups that I knew were flukey, so it is pointless to assume i'm shooting great because of them)
Cheers & thanks again for the info!
D
I figured the more shots in the group the more realistic it was (I've had some super tight two or 3 shot groups that I knew were flukey, so it is pointless to assume i'm shooting great because of them)
Cheers & thanks again for the info!
D
Update - pics of last shoot
I started applying some of the tips & results are getting interesting - great tips!
I used a sandbag under the stock (at the grip) and focused on my breathing & how I was squeezing the trigger. Turns out I am just slightly "anticipating" the shot - rather than being surprised by it. And the trigger pull may still be a bit high (I will try to test & see exactly what its is at)
The pics are all 5-shot groups, and are numbered. All are pretty decent (for me!) but the last group is probably the best I have done so far.
I took my time between shots to keep the barrel cool - and I stopped fiddling with the scope (I have a bad habit of chasing shots around the target)
Cheers guys!
I started applying some of the tips & results are getting interesting - great tips!
I used a sandbag under the stock (at the grip) and focused on my breathing & how I was squeezing the trigger. Turns out I am just slightly "anticipating" the shot - rather than being surprised by it. And the trigger pull may still be a bit high (I will try to test & see exactly what its is at)
The pics are all 5-shot groups, and are numbered. All are pretty decent (for me!) but the last group is probably the best I have done so far.
I took my time between shots to keep the barrel cool - and I stopped fiddling with the scope (I have a bad habit of chasing shots around the target)
Cheers guys!
- Location
- Houston, TX
That's pretty good. You got about 0.7 MOA with factory ammo.
Thanks - would that be about as much as can be expected from factory ammo, or can I get it down even further? Feels like the gun can do better & I'm the weak link right now -
Hey toomany - is that some type of software you used to calculate analyze the target picture?
Hey toomany - is that some type of software you used to calculate analyze the target picture?
good work
keep going over the marksmanship principles in your head while preparing for the shot. It will become habit. Having someone observe you shoot and compare your technique to the marksmanship principles will help you maintain your setup and prevent bad habits. You can practice the firing positions with snap caps as well. keep up the good work. If you were to get repeatable .7moa with factory ammo, I would think that is very acceptable. good work
keep going over the marksmanship principles in your head while preparing for the shot. It will become habit. Having someone observe you shoot and compare your technique to the marksmanship principles will help you maintain your setup and prevent bad habits. You can practice the firing positions with snap caps as well. keep up the good work. If you were to get repeatable .7moa with factory ammo, I would think that is very acceptable. good work
punkrockboy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Eastern Bantario!
That is great shooting, especially factory ammo!!!
Thanks guys - your advice has really made a difference!
I've been doing some dry run practice to keep my positioning constant & repeatable. I'll be down at the range again this week to see if I can start getting consistent groups - I have about 400 rounds of the REM UMC and that's it (can't find it locally - due to the war?) I will see if I can find some whitebox. I also saw that wolverine has Federal AE fmj (you think that would shoot similar to the rem UMC?)
Cheers & thanks for all the help -
D
I've been doing some dry run practice to keep my positioning constant & repeatable. I'll be down at the range again this week to see if I can start getting consistent groups - I have about 400 rounds of the REM UMC and that's it (can't find it locally - due to the war?) I will see if I can find some whitebox. I also saw that wolverine has Federal AE fmj (you think that would shoot similar to the rem UMC?)
Cheers & thanks for all the help -
D
