GTA Removing the M305 18.5" spot welded flash hider- A little help please.

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memine

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Hello.

I picked up a Norinco March 2015 18.5" M305 a few weeks ago in Toronto and found out that the stupid flash hider is spot welded to the barrel. I've found a few internet suggestions on how this can still be removed but I'm not to keen on pounding on the barrel with a hammer and I don't have the resources to build a clamp to pull it off. (It has the bayonet lug as well so I can't remove the gas piston until I grind off the lug which is why I want to remove the flash hider.)

If someone is in the Toronto or GTA that knows how to do this, or has a clamp that can give me a hand, it would be appreciated and I don't mind parting with a few dollars as thanks for your time and equipment use. I don't mind driving out to the country either. I just need to get this thing off so I can start accurizing. (New rod and scope mount are already on their way.)

I have typical home owner tools and some carpentry tools but the closest thing I have to a mechinists tools is a 5" vice, some punches, and files from Canadian Tire. ;)


TIA,
MM
 
you don't have to grind off the flash hider bayonet lug to get at the gas assembly- you undo the plug till it's free , UNDO THE FRONT HALF OF THE GAS ASSEMBLY AND PIV0T IT 90 DEGREES- it'll swing once you get your gas plug out- nOw OPEN YOUR BUTTPLATE DOOR , AND PULL OUT YOUR CLEANING KIT- see that thing that looks like a handle?- that's your MULTI-TOOL- you use the SOCKET END to remove your gas plug
there's a multitude of m305 owners in the Toronto area
that tool kit that it comes with is ALL YOU NEED - to maintain the 14- there should be a manual with the gun- if not then fm23-8 is on line- that's the gi manual for the 14- short of that or if you don't have the 14 multi-tool, a 3/8ths wrench/socket, whatever should take your gasplug off- the only thing that you don't use the tool kit for is to clean the orifice in the barrel ( a drill works for that- hand turn only- you want to clean the carbon, not enlarge the hole and a couple of allen keys for removing the sights
 
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t-star said:
you don't have to grind off the flash hider bayonet lug to get at the gas assembly-
Click to expand...
The lug serves no purpose to me so grinding it off so it's no longer an issue makes it easier to clean.

t-star said:
UNDO THE FRONT HALF OF THE GAS ASSEMBLY AND PIV0T IT 90 DEGREES- it'll swing once you get your gas plug out-
Click to expand...
Can't turn it by hand or with covered hardwood lumber stock. No shims, just real tight and I suspect the barrel is over indexed. I don't want to break it and at 6'4" and 300lbs I can snap things easier than I'd like. Looking to correct that later in October at a clinic. Once I get a chance to put more than 5 rounds through it I'll try again in case things loosen up from use.

t-star said:
nOw OPEN YOUR BUTTPLATE DOOR , AND PULL OUT YOUR CLEANING KIT- see that thing that looks like a handle?- that's your MULTI-TOOL- you use the SOCKET END to remove your gas plug
Click to expand...
That I do know and have already used it. That's how I found out the piston wouldn't clear the lug. (Seems the multi tool has a lot more uses but I haven't researched them all yet and no info came with the rifle.)

t-star said:
there's a multitude of m305 owners in the Toronto area
Click to expand...
Another member noted this as well and suggested I look for some local help or ask to borrow a tool which is why I posted this thread.

Thanks for the reply,
MM
 
actually the lug serves no purpose at all since the bayonet won't seat with the short barrel- apparently you can get a short handled bayonet, but I've never seen one- a dremel with a fiberglas wheel will take that lug off for you- you may have to use a mallet on the end of the mutitool and some penetrating oil to get the plug to loosen
 
ok, lets go over this step by step- I assume you've got your cleaning kit out- then with the rifle between the legs, and the mag out, pull out on the triggerguard- the rifle will then separate into the stock and receiver groups- getting the triggerguard may be impossible at first, but that's what the hole is for- stick a section of leaning rod in there for leverage and pull- getting the triggergard is KEY to all other operations- the rest I've covered= or just download fm23-8 and follow the directions with the exception of the gas plug assembly which I've already covered
 
t-star said:
actually the lug serves no purpose at all since the bayonet won't seat with the short barrel- apparently you can get a short handled bayonet, but I've never seen one-
Click to expand...
I've read that the short is supposed to come without a lug but don't know if it's true...first time Norinco buyer. Thought this would be a fun project gun like an SKS and I've never owned a .308...got the 30-06 30 years ago and never looked back till now.

t-star said:
a dremel with a fiberglas wheel will take that lug off for you-
Click to expand...
I didn't want the mess or hassle of grinding while it's on the rifle. Using the grinding wheels in the garage is faster and does a better job for me. If it comes down to it I could use my Makita or DeWalt cutting disk and clean up with a dremel but I'd still like it off the rifle first. (I plan to buy a muzzle brake anyway so it's goto go.)

t-star said:
you may have to use a mallet on the end of the mutitool and some penetrating oil to get the plug to loosen
Click to expand...
It's not the plug I can't move it's the gas cylinder lock. I though if it moved 90 degrees I could get enough extra room to remove the piston so I could clean it. Won't budge. I could hit it harder but breaking a rifle I've yet to zero seems counter productive. ;)
 
You won't break your gas cylinder lock, if you do I'll send you a new one on my dime. Hit it hard with something heavy and it will turn. M305's like it rough ;)
 
t-star said:
ok, lets go over this step by step- I assume you've got your cleaning kit out- then with the rifle between the legs, and the mag out, pull out on the triggerguard- the rifle will then separate into the stock and receiver groups- getting the triggerguard may be impossible at first, but that's what the hole is for- stick a section of leaning rod in there for leverage and pull- getting the triggergard is KEY to all other operations- the rest I've covered= or just download fm23-8 and follow the directions with the exception of the gas plug assembly which I've already covered
Click to expand...

I've already had the base parts removed so I could clean all the cosmoline off. I also put the rifle in an Archangel stock after greasing and doing 5 test shots to make sure it ran. It was when I was cleaning and lubing that I noticed that the piston would not come out, followed by seeing that the flash hider was spot welded.

I then tried to turn the gas cylinder locking ring but couldn't even with some light, cloth covered, hammering with a hardwood stick. The hope was that by moving it I would get enough extra room to remove the piston.

At the end of the day I think it's just simpler to remove the flash hider, grind the lug off for now, replace with a better one that has a castle nut at a later date, and never have to worry about it again.

I hope I explained things better.
MM
 
Pop said:
You won't break your gas cylinder lock, if you do I'll send you a new one on my dime. Hit it hard with something heavy and it will turn. M305's like it rough ;)
Click to expand...

Main goal is to remove the flash hider but after I get up north, hopefully by this weekend, and I fire a half dozen boxes, I might need to get a little rougher with it to clean. (I expect cleaning the piston isn't required as often but I only have a SKS and MR1 to go by.)

It looks like everything is twisted to the left by 1/8" or 1/4", if looking through the sights. Even where the rod strikes the piston isn't centered, it's off to the side. If twisted back you can see it would be centered. Hope to take the fall/winter clinic to deal with that fix.
 
you know there's an allen screw that secures the castle nut- that has to come out first- and that collar unscrews to the left-they ALL come with castle nuts so if yours doesn't have one, someone's been at it and changed the flashider- and you need a special tool to change the flashider- best to do that on the gun otherwise you'll need both a flashhider wrench and an ALIGNMENT TOOL,- I'VE NEVER EVEN SEEN ONE OF THOSE- or you're confusing the terms- for god's sakes DO NOT TAKE THE FLASHIDER OFF THE GUN or you'll need a re-crown- believe me I KNOW what I'm talking about-I have 4 of them plus ALL of the books and have done a lot of repairs- if you try to do it manually , you run the risk of having the bullet hit the inner ring of the flashhider or muzzelbrake as it exits the barrel
 
Welcome aboard! All M305 owners sympathize with your concerns.

Take the stock off and strip the moving parts off (less weight and entanglements).

Cinch the rifle upside down in the vice.

With a fine Allen key, remove and save the tiny set screw holding the castle nut.

Turn the nut back and forth in the clearance cut. Notice there is a gap forming. Turn it so the gap is at the back.

With a block of wood and your biggest hammer, use your best swing and smite the bayonet lug. You are trying to shock the spot welds and break them.

If you don't get anywhere with that, drill into the spot welds and weaken them. Some welding rod is top notch, others bottom rung. (Hope for weak.)

Go back to the hammer and block. When the welds break, spin the nut to the front of the cage and smite it again.

Good luck!
 
Well I am not heading out to Western Canada until 07 Sep , Labor Day Monday. :)

So let's get you up here for a 2 hour session. There is a reason that the M14 clinic series are (somewhat) crucial to attend. We don't want you to suffer in silence. Maybe we should have you up here sooner.

Send me a message to book your 2 hour private clinic. :cool:

Cheers, :wave:

Barney
 
t-star said:
you know there's an allen screw that secures the castle nut-
Click to expand...
Yes, that was easy to remove. Replaced it after I saw the spot welds.

t-star said:
and that collar unscrews to the left-they ALL come with castle nuts
Click to expand...
Didn't try due to the welds but I assumed they screw on and off as usual.

t-star said:
or you're confusing the terms-
Click to expand...
I don't believe so? Flash hider is on the end of the barrel and has a castle nut holding it in place that I assume unscrews to the left. The setscrew, which you called an allen screw, goes through the front of the flash hider and pins the castle nut in place by going into the recess of the castle nut. (Not the setscrew on the back which should hold the left right adjustments for windage.)

t-star said:
for god's sakes DO NOT TAKE THE FLASHIDER OFF THE GUN or you'll need a re-crown-
Click to expand...
I'm not sure what you mean? Why would removing the stock flash hider require replacement of the crown? (Did I say crown in place of castle somewhere?)

t-star said:
believe me I KNOW what I'm talking about-I have 4 of them plus ALL of the books and have done a lot of repairs- if you try to do it manually , you run the risk of having the bullet hit the inner ring of the flashhider or muzzelbrake as it exits the barrel
Click to expand...
That I do know. Wasn't happy with the cheap SKS after market muzzle brake. Had to file and custom fit that by hand. Used a dowel to make sure it was centered but was still nervous come test fire. As the flash hider on the M305 is notched and threaded I was expecting it to go back on fine with just a dowel as a guide before tightening.


Thanks for the reply.
MM
 
maple_leaf_eh said:
Welcome aboard! All M305 owners sympathize with your concerns.

Take the stock off and strip the moving parts off (less weight and entanglements).

Cinch the rifle upside down in the vice.

With a fine Allen key, remove and save the tiny set screw holding the castle nut.

Turn the nut back and forth in the clearance cut. Notice there is a gap forming. Turn it so the gap is at the back.

With a block of wood and your biggest hammer, use your best swing and smite the bayonet lug. You are trying to shock the spot welds and break them.

If you don't get anywhere with that, drill into the spot welds and weaken them. Some welding rod is top notch, others bottom rung. (Hope for weak.)

Go back to the hammer and block. When the welds break, spin the nut to the front of the cage and smite it again.

Good luck!
Click to expand...

That's how I removed the front sight on an SKS. More room to work with and at $200 a lot less costly if I was to miss. However the M305 18.5" barrel has things a little tighter together than the SKS and it's $600. Even though I have a wood vice the spot weld is a new issue for me. At least the SKS only had two pins I could easily remove first.

Thanks for the reply,
MM
 
t-star said:
or you can put it off and let BARNEY do it
Click to expand...

He's got a clinic coming up in October I plan to attend but didn't think it would include getting a flash hider off. I want to get the twisted barrel addressed and like doing things myself.

Again, thanks for the feedback.
MM

I see I'm replying to slowly, Barney's already added to the thread. ;)
 
Folks,

Memine and I are in comms now. We will have him over for a private 2 hour session in my basement workshop. It's all good. :cool:

I have his back! :p

The joys of welded FS units on the Norc rifles.... ha ha ha :wave:

Barney
 
memine said:
Hello.

I picked up a Norinco March 2015 18.5" M305 a few weeks ago in Toronto and found out that the stupid flash hider is spot welded to the barrel. I've found a few internet suggestions on how this can still be removed but I'm not to keen on pounding on the barrel with a hammer and I don't have the resources to build a clamp to pull it off. (It has the bayonet lug as well so I can't remove the gas piston until I grind off the lug which is why I want to remove the flash hider.)

If someone is in the Toronto or GTA that knows how to do this, or has a clamp that can give me a hand, it would be appreciated and I don't mind parting with a few dollars as thanks for your time and equipment use. I don't mind driving out to the country either. I just need to get this thing off so I can start accurizing. (New rod and scope mount are already on their way.)

I have typical home owner tools and some carpentry tools but the closest thing I have to a mechinists tools is a 5" vice, some punches, and files from Canadian Tire. ;)


TIA,
MM
Click to expand...

If you have access to a tie rod fork (e.g. http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/tie-rod-tool-0250009p.html#.Vdan5PlVhBc ) you can use it to remove your flash hider.
I put the back end of the tie rod tool on a solid workbench with the tines of the tie rod tool resting on the flash hider (the valley between the tines is just big enough to fit around the barrel and rest on the flash hider).
Hold the barrel with one hand and use a 5lb hammer with the other and hit the tie rod tool close to the barrel. One or two good hits will break the spot welds.
I've done this on 5 different m305s.

LOL, Just remember to loosen the castle nut first!
 
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