I have been holding my gun at different positions in relation to the trap house depending on which station I am shooting from. At station 1, for example, I hold the gun above the left hand front corner of trap house and I move the hold position as I change stations. So at station 2 I hold 1/2 way between the center of the trap house and the left corner and at station 3 I hold just past the center and so on. Elevation of the gun gets higher as one moves across the stations too. Recently, however, I read the Remington Trap Manual and they described a slightly different approach in which the gun hold is biased toward the far right bird because right hand shooters swing left more easily. So, on position 1, for example, the hold is half way between the left corner and the center of the trap house and so on. In other words, biased to the right of where I have learned to hold. On station 5, the hold is actually some distance past the corner of the trap house. I've only experimented with this during the last practice and there wasn't any noticeable improvement that I could see. But it's probably too soon to expect any great difference. Has anyone here experimented with this and found it useful? Does anyone have an opinion about it? I went to a PITA match last week and shot 89 at the 16 yard line and 88 handicap. So, a bird or so per match would be a great help.
Gun Hold Position in Trap
- Thread starter BCFred
- Start date
There are many different systems. Here's the one I was taught some years ago. The key is to keep the gun out of the way of the target and see the bird first.
Your eyes are on the edge of the trap house. For a right hand shooter imagine a semi circle to the left of your barrel. This is the arc from which the target will appear.
On station 1 the gun is held over the centre of the house. The target will either be a straight away or to your left.
On station 2 the gun is 3/4s to the right, between the centre and right hand corner. The target will be straight away or to your left.
On station 3, 4 and 5 hold the gun above the right hand corner of the trap house.
The gun is held about a foot above the house in all positions. If wind is in your face and the targets are flying high move the hold point about a foot higher up. If the wind is behind you hold closer to the edge of the house.
In all movements you are shooting either straight away or to your left which is easier for a right handed shooter.
Your eyes are on the edge of the trap house. For a right hand shooter imagine a semi circle to the left of your barrel. This is the arc from which the target will appear.
On station 1 the gun is held over the centre of the house. The target will either be a straight away or to your left.
On station 2 the gun is 3/4s to the right, between the centre and right hand corner. The target will be straight away or to your left.
On station 3, 4 and 5 hold the gun above the right hand corner of the trap house.
The gun is held about a foot above the house in all positions. If wind is in your face and the targets are flying high move the hold point about a foot higher up. If the wind is behind you hold closer to the edge of the house.
In all movements you are shooting either straight away or to your left which is easier for a right handed shooter.
I hold my barrel at least similar to clay buster, but I will have my feet set up for a shot farther to the right then that, at least on stations 4 and 5, for the same reasons as the hold position, it's easier to swing left then right. So on station 5 I'll line up my feet probably 6 to 8 feet to the right of the house, then swing back to the corner of the house to call for the bird. Doing that I'm already coiled up and can swing faster and farther. If the bird happens to be a hard left, thats basically a straight away anyway, so I can manage to break them even with my feet pointed the wrong way, but for a hard right I've got the advantage on swing speed, and I'm pointed in the ideal direction with my feet about the time I catch the bird and shoot. On station one I'll have my feet pointed more to the corner of the house, as it allows me to swing slightly right if needed, and swinging to the left is more natural, so not having my feet perfect for a hard left I don't find to be as critical.
Thank you both for the great replies. It looks like the idea of biasing the hold point for the right hand bird is something that has proven useful. In fact both of you guys bias even further than Remington calls for. I've been following the system described by Jerry Meyer in his book. Foot alignment is set up so a line through the toes parallel the line described by the hard left bird. As you move across the stages the right foot (right hand shooter) moves in a slight circle back to stay on this line. The stance is opening a bit to allow a smooth swing for the bird coming out to the right. The system doesn't seem to be a bad one and it has gotten me this far. But I miss slightly more hard rights than any other bird, especially from station 4 for some reason...go figure. I'm looking at fairly small changes in what I'm doing now in order to improve. But I'm worried about biasing things too much. I tend to miss when I anticipate a bird coming out a particular way, for example. In fact, what seems to have worked for me, so far, is having my eye regard out somewhat beyond the edge of the house and focussing at infinity and not anticipating bird direction in my mind. I seem to pick up the bird and move onto it better this way. As for how high to hold the gun up, it does depend on conditions, but it also depends on how I am shooting. Even with this really fine BT-99 I'm shooting I can tend to shoot high. When this happens to me, I think I should move my hold point higher, wind or no wind. (Oddly enough I just love shooting in a wind that is raising the birds!
) On the basis of what has been said here, I think I'll shoot some more rounds in practice with more of a bias for the radical right bird just to see how I feel and to see what happens. I know most of my misses come from mental lapses. But it might help tip me consistently into the low to middle 90's having a position a bit better set up for the right tending birds. Thanks again. Fred
) On the basis of what has been said here, I think I'll shoot some more rounds in practice with more of a bias for the radical right bird just to see how I feel and to see what happens. I know most of my misses come from mental lapses. But it might help tip me consistently into the low to middle 90's having a position a bit better set up for the right tending birds. Thanks again. Fredberetta boy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Orillia, Ontario
Don't be afraid of "change"... after all isn't insanity doing the same thing the same way and expecting a different result ? If a different hold point works, by all means, adapt and use it ! There really isn't (within reason) any right or
wrong way ... just what works the best for you. Figure it out, be consistant and stick with it so it becomes (subconsciously) "automatic" ( i.e., you don't even have to think about it ! )
Now the bigger task ... those "mental lapses"
Now the bigger task ... those "mental lapses"
True words describing an interesting problem!!! One thing that has helped me so far is being mentally ready for calling the bird. So far I have a build up to each shot in which I adjust foot position, check sites to verify gun hold, position gun to hold point, adjust eyes outward, say ready in my head and call for the bird. The second thing that has helped is actually learning to relax and not try too hard while remaining alert and geared toward taking the bird. It's almost a paradox. But I have to fight the desire to fix bayonets and charge, i.e. begin trying really, really hard. I've almost got this one whipped too. When I have a mental lapse now it is happening between the point where I look outward and think I'm ready and the point where I call for the bird. The disruptive thoughts are almost always related to technical aspects of shooting or what has happened or what could happen and sometimes they drive me crazy. Sometimes I get away with it too, i.e. I'll have a disruptive thought but it doesn't quite throw me off enough for a miss and I'll get an edge shot. I know when it happens every time. So far, I try not to react too hard, while feeling I'd like to pound the gun into the ground, of course
. I try to relax and emphasize getting back to my build up for the next shot. It all helps, but there is no doubt it is a mental game and that sometimes I screw up mentally. It's a pretty seductive sport all things considered. I have on occasion shot a straight in trap. So, I know I can do it, which makes me feel I should be able to do it more often (maybe all the time). Right now I'm kind of hoping that playing around with position a bit might help with the mental aspect a bit too by allowing me to doubt a bit less mentally. Then, of course, there is just shooting, shooting and shooting...beretta boy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Orillia, Ontario
Cure: Stop thinking .... just shoot !
beretta boy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Orillia, Ontario
Right! No argument! But getting there is the problem. Any opinion as to the best way to go about doing that?
Focussed practice.
Get your "pre-shot mechanics" down-pat through practice to the point where you don't even have to think about them ... i.e., foot position, gun mount,
hold point, etc. " Job One " should be hard focus on the target. One target at a time. Just the one at hand ... not the previous one or the next one after this one. Don't get caught watching other shooters or their targets, or worse, counting your targets hits/misses. When you get to the point the referee or puller is having to tell you to change stations / over and out, you know you're getting closer.
You shouldn't have to think about how you're going to stand or look down at your feet when you step on a pad ... through practice, you'll just do it automatically (subconsciously) and know you're in the proper position and ready.
"Focussed practice" isn't just shooting shells ... it's working on some facet of your game that'sgiving you trouble or needs reinforcement.
As an example, pro golfers generally don't practice by just hitting a bucket of balls or by playing rounds of golf. They may, as an illustration, take 100 shots at a hole from say 90 yards out with an 8 iron, with a goal of having 85 percent of their shots remaining 10 feet or less from the pin. In tournament play, that kind of practice from that distance will pay off !
Your trap practice needs to be likewise focussed to improve your weaknesses and reinforce your strengths.
If say, hard rights from 5 are continually giving you fits, pick some quiet time, lock the trap down and practice a box or two of shells from 5 at nothing but hard rights, till you get "the picture of how to hit them consistantly" firmly ingrained into your memory. Your next regular round, a hard right from 5 should come as second nature ... you know how to hit them... and you've practiced doing it ! ( After shooting several hundred, if not a few thousand "rabbitt" or "spring teal" targets at Sporting Clays, they don't seem near as intimidating as they once were a dozen or so years ago when I'd never seen them )
Good shooting Fred !
Lobotomy might be necessary. It might even work!!!...lol. But it does sound like taking the easy way out.
Focussed practice is something I haven't done in trap. My partner and I do something like that in skeet sometimes where we will shoot only at stations 3, 4 and 5. l keep it in mind after I see what results the new gun hold positions bring. I saw one training video in which the instructor actually had a phrase he said in his mind to focus himself just before he called for the bird. I think he said "Now, show me the bird." or something like that. I've been thinking it might be interesting to try doing this to see what happens.
. But it does sound like taking the easy way out.Focussed practice is something I haven't done in trap. My partner and I do something like that in skeet sometimes where we will shoot only at stations 3, 4 and 5. l keep it in mind after I see what results the new gun hold positions bring. I saw one training video in which the instructor actually had a phrase he said in his mind to focus himself just before he called for the bird. I think he said "Now, show me the bird." or something like that. I've been thinking it might be interesting to try doing this to see what happens.
Once you have psychically learned to brake the targets the rest is a mental state ""ZEN"" you only can beat your self out of a good score Breathing Staying Relaxed and focused. Example I have shot 99 by missing the first bird out of the house and broke 99 by missing the last bird after missing the first bird the pressure is off missing the 100th bird is letting the pressure beat you .I love clay target shooting .
I've done the same thing more times than I can count.. What part of SK are you from!?
Well, it looks like this experiment is pretty much over for me. I've worked at differences in position for a month or so now. When I started shading things quite far to the right from stations 4 & 5 I started missing the odd bird to the left. This might go away after awhile, of course. What I finally settled on was to shade only a bit to the right at 4 & 5. One confusing factor was that I was holding my gun too high and my scores popped up as soon as I corrected that. It's interesting that so many good shooters are more radical in their approach on gun hold point. One thought that has occurred to me is that I like to shoot skeet, sporting clays and 5 stand as well as trap. Sometimes I have wondered over the past few weeks if it is such a good idea to train myself into a really radical stance shooting trap. It might work to increase scores a bit in trap, but how will it affect the other games? I think it might be more useful to concentrate on having a good swing rather than getting more radical with position.
