gun stock refinishing advise
- Thread starter DVS_182
- Start date
Everything you wanted to know but were afraid to ask is here
http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=520722
R
http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=520722
R
If it's laminated you'll see the glue lines in the stock and grain runout angles between each layer. Do a google image search for "laminated stocks" to see what to look for.
CZ uses darker walnut or something similar to start with. Do really there's no need or advantage to using any sort of stain. Just a clear finish is all that is needed to restore the looks.
I forgot to mention. This gun was given to him and he was told it was a fairly expensive rifle. I havent run the model number or anything to check. But my question is will fixing the finish hurt the value if it is a collectable or pricey piece? As in a inexperienced guy "myself" looking to give it a try. I am alittle handy, not incompetent.
it will, most likely hurt the price-- you can spend some time at Gunbroker and watch the variance on price to get an idea between touched and untouched.
I will support an earlier comment about Rimfire Central. There is an exceptional amount of quality info on finishing all types of wood. One fellow has a process of mixing layers of armorall and tru oil. His process , ultimately, is to lay down countless thin layers and sand/polish between each. THe amorall dramatically accelerates the tru-oil drying time. Also at that forum is a fellow named George (Noremf) , and he has posted countless "stickies" on useful info about conventional wood finishes. Its all excellent info for guys like us.
My wood finishing process is a safe process of layering polymerized tung oil ( 20 to 30 coats) with sanding/polishing between each. That seems to be the key for those ultra-smooth, translucent glass finish that some like.
Others like that European oil finish, where there are far fewer coats, and the wood is more open with a thinner, flatter finish. I use 8 to 10 ultra thin coats of pure tung oil to get that, with mild sanding between the first few.
I will support an earlier comment about Rimfire Central. There is an exceptional amount of quality info on finishing all types of wood. One fellow has a process of mixing layers of armorall and tru oil. His process , ultimately, is to lay down countless thin layers and sand/polish between each. THe amorall dramatically accelerates the tru-oil drying time. Also at that forum is a fellow named George (Noremf) , and he has posted countless "stickies" on useful info about conventional wood finishes. Its all excellent info for guys like us.
My wood finishing process is a safe process of layering polymerized tung oil ( 20 to 30 coats) with sanding/polishing between each. That seems to be the key for those ultra-smooth, translucent glass finish that some like.
Others like that European oil finish, where there are far fewer coats, and the wood is more open with a thinner, flatter finish. I use 8 to 10 ultra thin coats of pure tung oil to get that, with mild sanding between the first few.
Wet sanding should only be done when there is no chance of hitting wood. I have tried the Tru-Oil/Amorall trick, it did not work for me but what do I know. The polymerized tung oil works okay but the pure takes months/years to dry. They all need to have a final sanding and rub out/polish to get a high grade finish. I do high gloss with a two part epoxy clear coat and a lot of work, sand to 1000/2000 and polish until you can see your face.
Resale value versus function or condition of a stock is always the mental debate before refinishing. If you plan on shooting the gun a lot, then lean towards a good refinish. I recently refinished a Ruger Carbine, which are starting to become harder to find, but the stock was in such poor condition that the refinishing really didn't hurt the value of the gun, in fact it probably helped it fir this gun. http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1260584-Ruger-44-Carbine-Refinish
I did a cheap old cooey to test with some regular stain from home depot, tru oil, and finished with some blue label paste wax from Lee Valley. Turned out great for being done by a noob. I didn't sand at all between coats of tru oil. It's held up for 2 years now.
Wood is wood. Use the same products and techniques used for fine furniture. Which end product you use will depend on whether your buddy wants a flat finish or shiney. Partial to tung oil myself. Seals the wood completely(any stain must go on before any tung oil) and gives a hard, waterproof, finish that brings out the grain nicely. Takes longer to apply(several days) correctly and it has gotten kind of pricey. Runs nearly $20 per litre in Home Depot, et al. Mind you, a litre goes a long way.
Spar varnish is an option too. Never used it myself. The 'spar' part is a piece of boat.
Try searching the model to see if it's a laminate or not. Only really difference will be the depth the finish goes. It's still wood. Just in thin layers like any plywood.
Spar varnish is an option too. Never used it myself. The 'spar' part is a piece of boat.
Try searching the model to see if it's a laminate or not. Only really difference will be the depth the finish goes. It's still wood. Just in thin layers like any plywood.
it all depends on what finish you are looking for, when I got SKS the stock used to look like a branch from a tree dipped in mud, I used from 300grit to 1200grit sand paper until it became soft like a feather, then I used RIT dye (you can find it in any micheals craft store) cost about $6, then I used 6 coats of clear. then I wet sand it slightly and buff it just like you would do for a car.
here is the finished product.
here is the finished product.
I hate to use stain because it can be hard not cutting into it when trying to get the grain filled. To get a top grade finish I normally stop at 320-400 on the raw wood and then 320 on the first coats and never finer than 600 until the last coat. I never know it will be the last until I inspect the next day.
I'm against using stain for most woods for the same reason as Ian as well as a couple of other reasons.
I also find that many folks that don't do a lot of wood finishing tend to assume that all darker looking woods are stained. But it ain't so in many or most cases. If you start with a wood like walnut it may not look that dark when it's sanded due to the surface. But if you wet the wood with water or paint thinner you'll see what it'll look like with an oil finish or with a good solvent based varnish. And generally the darker colour that appears is what you're after.
It's only some cheaper rifles with beech, birch or other lighter woods which needs a stain if you insist on a darker finish.
One other reason why I don't like stain is that if used with a somewhat heavy hand it tends to look like mud on the wood and hide the grain more than it brings it up. So when I MUST use a stain I tend to start with a darker version and thin it with some paint thinner or even mix it with something like Danish oil to cut down on the mud effect.
Most stains are basically "thin paint" due to their use of fine pigment. These are the ones which can make the wood look muddy if not buffed off vigorously. Minwax USED to have a line of transparent tinted stains which were amazing because they didn't use pigments. Instead it was like a dye that was fully dissovled in the base oil. But that was then and this is now.....
Mr Colt's RIT dye idea is just about as close as it gets to the Minwax option. Lee Valley also sells a line of aniline dyes that are great too.
I'm not normally partial to non wood like colouring but I must say that you did a nice job on that SKS stock there Mr Colt. The wood used for those is rather boring if we're looking for grain effects so perking it up with a flashy colour makes it pop a lot more.
I also find that many folks that don't do a lot of wood finishing tend to assume that all darker looking woods are stained. But it ain't so in many or most cases. If you start with a wood like walnut it may not look that dark when it's sanded due to the surface. But if you wet the wood with water or paint thinner you'll see what it'll look like with an oil finish or with a good solvent based varnish. And generally the darker colour that appears is what you're after.
It's only some cheaper rifles with beech, birch or other lighter woods which needs a stain if you insist on a darker finish.
One other reason why I don't like stain is that if used with a somewhat heavy hand it tends to look like mud on the wood and hide the grain more than it brings it up. So when I MUST use a stain I tend to start with a darker version and thin it with some paint thinner or even mix it with something like Danish oil to cut down on the mud effect.
Most stains are basically "thin paint" due to their use of fine pigment. These are the ones which can make the wood look muddy if not buffed off vigorously. Minwax USED to have a line of transparent tinted stains which were amazing because they didn't use pigments. Instead it was like a dye that was fully dissovled in the base oil. But that was then and this is now.....
Mr Colt's RIT dye idea is just about as close as it gets to the Minwax option. Lee Valley also sells a line of aniline dyes that are great too.
I'm not normally partial to non wood like colouring but I must say that you did a nice job on that SKS stock there Mr Colt. The wood used for those is rather boring if we're looking for grain effects so perking it up with a flashy colour makes it pop a lot more.
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My finish of choice is pure tung oil(not the big box store mixes). Lee Valley has it as do some other woodworking specialty stores. After a thorough cleaning and sanding the first few coats are a 50/50 mix of citrus solvent and tung oil. After 'priming' I use the oil uncut. A little goes a long way and I just rub it in with my hands. Wait 15 minutes, wipe of excess and let sit for a day or more. Keep applying until you are happy with the looks or are just tired of rubbing and waiting. It takes me a couple of weeks to get a stock to where I am content with the results. No need for any other treatment and to clean and refresh the finish just use a little more tung oil every few months. Wipe on, wait a bit, wipe off, done.
Why are you refinishing this stock weather proofing, resale, or improvement . If you can't tell if its walnut or laminated than it maybe not worth a hand rubbed finish. I've refinished a few stocks and found that I like Tung oil and wet sand the finish the oil into the stock with progressive grades of sandpaper as I go . I form a muck of oil and wood dust and at a certain point when all the pours are full I start sanding and wiping the excess muck of to reveal the finish .This takes a long time to do and 30 to 40 coats of oil so if your going to do this yourself have fun if you pay a pro your going to be out a few bucks and it may not be worth it Slipp
Like BCrider Said, stains are not good when you want that wood grain to pop, the best way to do it is to use a dye, Also dyes are super easy to apply and come in a wide range of colors that stains can't match. You just need to seal it with some sort of clear to protect it from the elements.
RIT dies are super cheap, one bottle can make you tons of stocks or any other wood project. All you gotta do it mix it with boiling water and dip your stock or wood piece in it and let it sit for few minutes, this is also good for people who like to have pistol wood grips customized, it also work on plastics and other materials.
I guess it is a matter of taste and choice, I am not too fan of plain wood type of stocks, I like more the display quality finishes.
RIT dies are super cheap, one bottle can make you tons of stocks or any other wood project. All you gotta do it mix it with boiling water and dip your stock or wood piece in it and let it sit for few minutes, this is also good for people who like to have pistol wood grips customized, it also work on plastics and other materials.
I guess it is a matter of taste and choice, I am not too fan of plain wood type of stocks, I like more the display quality finishes.
