gunsmith lathe

kingcole2

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I have my mind set at a G4003G gunsmith lathe from grizzly inc. but I found this website that has a mill lathe combo. i guess this question is for some of the experts and im just a hobby gunsmith wanna be any thoughts on the 2 models i am looking at?

https://www.boltonhardware.com/category/bolton-tools/metal-lathes-wood-lathes-milling-machines/combo-lathe-mill-drills/12-x-36-gear-head-combo-lathe-mill-drill.php

thanks in advance
 
There's no such thing as a gunsmith lathe. Having that word in it's name just increase the price.
That one is just a 36" lathe with some other attachments. Handy ones though. You have a place to put one. A place with a very solid floor and the right electric service? Find out what tooling comes with it too. That's usually where you get fornicated.
 
yes i did my research on the grizzly G4003G and yes it is just called a "gunsmith" lathe that i do know. but i have seen it has good reviews and I do have a place to put it. i do like the idea of having a combo mill/lathe.
 
yes i did my research on the grizzly G4003G and yes it is just called a "gunsmith" lathe that i do know. but i have seen it has good reviews and I do have a place to put it. i do like the idea of having a combo mill/lathe.

No. No you don't. Having one is a sacrifice in both worlds and are in my opinion all but useless. A gunsmith lathe is just a little bit more specialized than a general lathe. Mainly it comes with more screw pitches than normal, as well as a couple of extra accessories such as an outboard spider. A Digital Readout (DRO) is, in my opinion, an absolute necessity. Fiddling with unreliable dials is a waste of time and very frustrating.
 
ok so what are your opinions on the G4003G? I'm doing this as a hobby and want to learn to chamber, true the actions and so on for target rifle and maybe re barrel my hunting rifles.

No. No you don't. Having one is a sacrifice in both worlds and are in my opinion all but useless. A gunsmith lathe is just a little bit more specialized than a general lathe. Mainly it comes with more screw pitches than normal, as well as a couple of extra accessories such as an outboard spider. A Digital Readout (DRO) is, in my opinion, an absolute necessity. Fiddling with unreliable dials is a waste of time and very frustrating.
 
ok so what are your opinions on the G4003G? I'm doing this as a hobby and want to learn to chamber, true the actions and so on for target rifle and maybe re barrel my hunting rifles.

I have never used one, personally, so cannot coment of how well it works. However it appears to be a good machine with some very positive features, but for my tastes, it is somewhat lacking.

Pros:

Lots of feeds and thread pitches
Price
Looks to be well made
Outboard spider
Cost of tooling (small machine means small tools, and less cost)

Cons:

Only 9 speeds, I prefer around 16 speeds ~30 to ~2000 RPM
Only 36" between centers
Lightweight (not a cast base)
Small size means all the tooling is also lightweight
Very small chucks. I'm more used to 12" 3 jaws, and even larger 4 jaw and faceplates.

For basic use it ticks most of the boxes, but I would search around locally and see what you can find used. A couple decade old, quality Taiwanese lathe will likely net more rigidity and quality for the price, but you may give up some of your thread pitch range in the high end, but perhaps more threads on the low end.

That's my opinion as a Machinist.
 
ok my budget is around $5000.00 i haven't been able to find any Canadian dealers on the web so i looked at grizzly. and for buying used i wouldn't know where to begin so I would like to buy new.

I have never used one, personally, so cannot coment of how well it works. However it appears to be a good machine with some very positive features, but for my tastes, it is somewhat lacking.

Pros:

Lots of feeds and thread pitches
Price
Looks to be well made
Outboard spider
Cost of tooling (small machine means small tools, and less cost)

Cons:

Only 9 speeds, I prefer around 16 speeds ~30 to ~2000 RPM
Only 36" between centers
Lightweight (not a cast base)
Small size means all the tooling is also lightweight
Very small chucks. I'm more used to 12" 3 jaws, and even larger 4 jaw and faceplates.

For basic use it ticks most of the boxes, but I would search around locally and see what you can find used. A couple decade old, quality Taiwanese lathe will likely net more rigidity and quality for the price, but you may give up some of your thread pitch range in the high end, but perhaps more threads on the low end.

That's my opinion as a Machinist.
 
For $5000 you can get a Sharp from Vancouver bc. Similar quality as grizzly and a Canadian company.

Whatever lathe you buy make sure you can get an action inside the headstock. Setting up the action in a four jaw chuck and the barrel in a steady rest is a pain for something as simple as fixing a muzzle crown.
 
For $5000 you can get a Sharp from Vancouver bc. Similar quality as grizzly and a Canadian company.

Whatever lathe you buy make sure you can get an action inside the headstock. Setting up the action in a four jaw chuck and the barrel in a steady rest is a pain for something as simple as fixing a muzzle crown.

Nice features on some of those machines. Is there a pricelist anywhere? I couldn't find one.
 
I'm gonna second the opinion that you should stay far far away from the combo machines.

They are capable of doing good work IF the operator has a great deal of experience to call upon to be able to work around the many shortcomings. That's really the irony, as they have like as not caused more people to quit trying machining that any other part of the game. Aside from that, you can cheat a bit and do some milling on a lathe. But a lathe, you pretty much need, and better a stand alone than a combo machine.

If it helps you decide, the owner of Grizzly is a bench rest shooter, he uses his own products. The Gunsmith series of lathes come with a few features, such as built in cat head screws, that a fella could make if he wanted to, but they are already done on this one. Not much else to differentiate the Gunsmith lathes from any other lathe a gunsmith might care to be interested in. It is being marketed to the particular hobby group, is all.
I'd take one of these over a 9 inch South Bend, in a heartbeat, and the 9"SB's were a pretty standard piece of kit in gun shops across the place for about ever.

Rankin? Yeah, I wouldn't expect there to be a heck of a used market in the neighborhood. Am I wrong?

You getting Home Shop Machinist magazine? Aside from the content, and ideas therein, including usually at least one firearms related article per issue, there are a bunch of advertisers in there that don't mind dealing with small orders and that stock tooling more appropriate for small scale operations and onesy-twosy work rather than tooling amortized over a large production run ($$$$).

Cheers
Trev
 
The Grizzly is a good lathe. The unit you are looking at is OK for small stuff, IF you are extremely careful.

Have a look at BusyBee. busybee.ca

They offer two styles of offshore produced lathes, which are copies of British lathes.

By styles, I mean Back Gear types which will give you a broad range of speeds and feeds, but you have to change out the gears or rearrange them to get many of them.

The other style is the Quick Change Gear Box. This comes with a set of metric gears and a set of imperial gears. Each of the changes can be done by quick adjustments of the two levers on the gear box.

The offshore offerings are very similar and some of the Grizzly lathes are made offshore as well.

The Busy Bee offerings are reasonably priced, well within your budget.

My advice to you would be to go onto the internet and find the closest BB to you. There are several across Canada. BB also carries a full line of tooling. Call the store you choose to order from. Often they have exactly what you are looking for on at very reduced prices.

Buy the largest machine you can afford, with tooling. Luckily, much of the tooling needed comes with the lathe package.

Before you buy, you need to make sure your facilities are good enough to set up your new lathe on. The lathe needs to be on a solid, concrete floor that is relatively level. You also need to be able to move the lathe into position and set it up on its bases. I advise against a bench mounted lathe. They are just to small and benches usually have to much give or vibration for really good, accurate work. Thick, heavy wood floors might be OK. I had a lathe mounted on an 8 inch thick oak floor. It was made of 2x8 oak packing crate frames for machinery. Even though it was 10 feet wide and 14 feet long, it wasn't stable enough, IMHO. It was glued and bolted from side to side. It still flexed and it was often noticeable.

Call the store personally and ask to talk to someone knowledgeable about machining equipment. They will be happy to tell you what you should get for tooling to go along with the lathe. Don't forget measuring tools. Inside and outside micrometers etc.

If you don't have a decent drill press, get one as well. If you decide you need a milling machine, stay away from those very small units. They're good for plastic and soft metals but when longer cuts are needed in harder metals, you need something up to the task. You can get by quite well with a smaller drill press though, for holes up to 3/4 inch.

You also need good files of various shapes, punches made of brass and tool steel. You also need brass shim stock to center the pieces in your thee jaw chucks, if you are repairing a part and want to match centres. Small brass hammers, good hacksaw blades, emery cloth of different grits, edge breakers etc. Then you need different bits to grind to different thread configurations or O ring grooves etc.

Rankin Inlet, is a bit out of the way. Shipping costs must be horrendous to say the least. Getting as much together in on bunch is likely your aim. Waiting a few months or more for a particular part or some metal could be a bit tedious. Likely there is a shop or site in your area where you can go to pick some brains and maybe even get some hands on experience. Striking out on your own can take years of experimentation. A mentor, can teach you more in a couple of hours than you can garner on your own in months. Most of it is just common sense. Getting speeds and gearing down pat is another thing, for some of us. Once it comes together though, it's like riding a bike, you don't forget until dementia sets in.
 
As a hobbyist there is no reason why you would ever outgrow the Grizzly G4003G. It's a 12x36 machine with a 1.57 inch bore through the headstock. It's more than adequate for anything you'll ever do short of rebuilding heavy equipment.

Bearhunter, I don't know what sort of machines you're used to using but I'd hesitate to describe any 12x36 lathe as "....OK for small stuff, IF you are extremely careful. ". I've taken 3/16 cuts off steel when hogging down a part and it did the job without any issue. Other than this one point I totally agree with everything you wrote. Excellent advice.

And I echo the comments to avoid that combo unit. A mill lives and breaths based on the size of the table and the ability to move the head in the Z axis. Something that the combo machine you linked to fails badly on both counts.

Grizzly has a sale on at the moment for the same machine;
http://www.busybeetools.com/products/LATHE-12IN.-X-36IN.-2HP-GEAR-HEAD.html

A good companion milling machine to go with the lathe would be;
http://www.busybeetools.com/products/KNEE-MILL-WITH-STAND-2HP-220V-CRAFTEX.html
 
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Kingcole, I would strongly recommend that you also order up a few books. If you can't find a good skilled mentor locally you'll have to rely on being mentored through the printed word and diagrams and photos.

A must have is "The Amateur's Lathe" by Sparey. It's older so some of the tooling will look odd. And the main machine is a smaller Myford. But the lessons in this book are timeless. It is what I suggest as your "primer" for learning your first steps on your new lathe. If you don't buy any other book for running your lathe you SHOULD buy this one.

Southbend's "How to Run a Lathe" is also a good one. For a while it was out there as a free download. But even if you have to pay for it again it's money well spent.

There's a bunch of videos from Southbend on You Tube as well.

I do see that the chucks on these machines seem to be getting smaller. If the chucks do not have center holes that are at least as large as the headstock bore you'll want to buy an extra 3 and 4 jaw that do have a bigger center hole. If you can't swing that and can only buy ONE then make it the 4 jaw. It's a little of a pain to center stock but it is the one you'll want when things need to be centered. Never trust a 3 jaw self centering chuck to center. It's only a name. They all have some runout. And the runout gets worse as the scroll picks up swarf during use.
 
Never touch a combo machine. Even if someone offers you one for free, it's probably best to turn it down. You'll save on the shipping costs and the extra cost of having to haul it to the scrap yard.

The Grizzly machines are subject to debate. There's a thread here that's not more than a few weeks old where a guy got one and he's quite happy. On some machinist forums however ' the G ' word is forbidden. It's kinda like talking about Lada's and Trabant's on a quality car forum.

I just checked the map, and wow, are you ever north of North.

Normally I'd say you're better off doing a few hours of research on choosing a quality used lathe, but I'm not sure that's much help to you considering where you're located.

Maybe check KBC tools. They have some chinese machines that fit your budget, but as with most chinese stuff the quality can be risky.

gl
 
Given that you are in Rankin Inlet, finding a used machine is going to be a bit awkward. If you do locate one, it is going to have to be crated for sealift delivery - I doubt that you are going to have it airfreighted in. At least a new machine would be crated.
The Grizzly that you are considering would likely be a useful machine for you.
 
Combo Machines are useless. For a hobby get a nice used lathe and a small mill. Your not going to be hogging off a lot of material or anything just get something SOLID and get something with a DRO (digital read out). I'm a Toolmaker so I kind of know what I'm talking about. No matter what have fun, and don't put your hands were you wouldn't put your d@#k.
 
I wish I had a better source of info for sharpe. They don't have much of a website.

Busy bee sells junk.

Don't buy a combo machine ever.

Buy a copy of a Mazak lathe. If the seller doesn't know what you are talking about walk away.
Buy a machine you can get parts for later. You will break ####.

In over twenty years of working as a machinist and backyard gunsmith I have run more lathes of various makes than you can imagine. The difference between an inexpensive/solid machine and an over hyped tricked out pile of crap is huge.

Grizzly sells the same machines as a bunch of other people, just painted a different color
 
Awright. Coupla things. Books! I love (LOVE!) books!

The Sparey book is gold. Available by mail order from Busy Bee, too.
Two other good books to have from same source are "Workholding in the Lathe" and "Milling in the Lathe" by a fella that wrote under the nom de plume of Tubal Cain. Both books aimed squarely at hobby machinists and both books full of good ideas and problem solving info. Cheap for what they are, too.

On the combo machines. I'd take a free one. They make a pretty good lathe for doing woodwork on, and for metal spinning, because for the most part the combo's have a rather large swing for their size, and speeds too high to be useful for most metalwork. The 'mill' feature...just so much scrap metal, IMO. Maybe better than nothing at all, maybe worse.

As to buying a copy of a Mazak lathe. Huh? No need for an 8000 pound lathe. Great machines, but a little overkill for anything other than a job shop. Then add in the tooling ($$$ or $$$$ instead of $$ or $$$) and you spent a whack more money that wasn't doing you any good. Think hobby, not "Job", eh.
But on a related note, there was a Whacheon lathe on Kijiji here a couple days back for $4k. Bargooon! No shop to put it in though, so didn't call.

Cheers
Trev
 
Mazak makes small lathes to. Down to about 10" swing.

We have a jmft at work that is a Mazak copy. Works well. Gap bed is not of much use for gunsmithing but you may need to turn a brake rotor one day....
 
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