h&r 45-70
- Thread starter m1978
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- Vancouver Island BC
h & r 45-70
I was loading my H&R 45-70 single shot with 405 grainers with top loads...the heavy loads were nasty and not needed in the 45-70.
I shoot 420 grain GC cast bullets now with 40 grains of IMR 4198 and they clock in at 1710 fps. Thats plenty fast and has enough knockdown power for anything you will run into on this side of the planet. I suspect it will work for bigger stuff too like big African plains game and perhaps buffalo....I sure would like to try.
I was loading my H&R 45-70 single shot with 405 grainers with top loads...the heavy loads were nasty and not needed in the 45-70.
I shoot 420 grain GC cast bullets now with 40 grains of IMR 4198 and they clock in at 1710 fps. Thats plenty fast and has enough knockdown power for anything you will run into on this side of the planet. I suspect it will work for bigger stuff too like big African plains game and perhaps buffalo....I sure would like to try.most of what I read said it will be fine at Marlin loads. I read some that say top loads and beyond. I worked mine up to 53g of 3031 with a 405 Remington semi-jacketed bullet (don't think I can get anymore powder in). Have fired many rounds with this load with no problems. Having said that, do not take my word for it and work your leads up in small increments and check for overpressure signs. FUN GUN to shoot.
M1978,
I have one and have started load development for it. I am using the Hornady 350 grainer with 45.o grains of RL#7, and it shoots real nicely. The thing I have found with these big bores is that you do not need a lot of velocity to get good performance.
I did a penetration test on some used oil drums at a dump, and a factory loaded 300 grain JHP completely penetrated 3 drums, and split the 1st side of the fourth one so bad it almost entered. Left a huge dent and a tear in it. I chronoed those loads, and they were doing 1855 fps at the muzzle. I doubt a deer's shoulder blade is as tough as 6 sides of metal oil drum. Even a moose should not slow that one down appreciably.
My Brother has a NEF Handi-Rifle in 45-70, and he has loaded some 500 grainers that actually loosened fillings in my teeth. Good grief! You don't need that kind of power. It completely penetrated a full size bull moose from right front to left rear, and broke the hip bone before exiting. His rifle is a little loose now, but it still shoots.
All the BCPR guys tell me that a moderate load is all that is needed, and they are super accurate. My first group on paper at 50 metres measured 0.563" centre to centre. With factory loads. Not bad. Besides which -- that long drop butt stock, and the colour case hardened "recoil pad" with a warm load would leave its mark for sure.
I think big bullets do not have to travel fast to be effective. My target velocity for the 350 is going to be 1800 fps. With the 405, I would like to get around 1700-1750 -- which should be easily obtainable.
If you want a 458 magnum, buy one. Don't make the 45-70 something it was never intended to be. Garrett Bullets makes hard cast ammo for the 45-70, and I think the loads they say that are safe in the H&R/NEF rifles are kept to around 30-35K psi.
If I want speed, I got a 300 magnum. My 45-70 is a pumpkin launcher. I plan on keeping it that way. Besides, I also have a 405 Win to play with , and with a 300 gr bullet, speeds in excess of 2200 fps are easily attainable.
Y'all have fun with the Classic!
I have one and have started load development for it. I am using the Hornady 350 grainer with 45.o grains of RL#7, and it shoots real nicely. The thing I have found with these big bores is that you do not need a lot of velocity to get good performance.
I did a penetration test on some used oil drums at a dump, and a factory loaded 300 grain JHP completely penetrated 3 drums, and split the 1st side of the fourth one so bad it almost entered. Left a huge dent and a tear in it. I chronoed those loads, and they were doing 1855 fps at the muzzle. I doubt a deer's shoulder blade is as tough as 6 sides of metal oil drum. Even a moose should not slow that one down appreciably.
My Brother has a NEF Handi-Rifle in 45-70, and he has loaded some 500 grainers that actually loosened fillings in my teeth. Good grief! You don't need that kind of power. It completely penetrated a full size bull moose from right front to left rear, and broke the hip bone before exiting. His rifle is a little loose now, but it still shoots.
All the BCPR guys tell me that a moderate load is all that is needed, and they are super accurate. My first group on paper at 50 metres measured 0.563" centre to centre. With factory loads. Not bad. Besides which -- that long drop butt stock, and the colour case hardened "recoil pad" with a warm load would leave its mark for sure.
I think big bullets do not have to travel fast to be effective. My target velocity for the 350 is going to be 1800 fps. With the 405, I would like to get around 1700-1750 -- which should be easily obtainable.
If you want a 458 magnum, buy one. Don't make the 45-70 something it was never intended to be. Garrett Bullets makes hard cast ammo for the 45-70, and I think the loads they say that are safe in the H&R/NEF rifles are kept to around 30-35K psi.
If I want speed, I got a 300 magnum. My 45-70 is a pumpkin launcher. I plan on keeping it that way. Besides, I also have a 405 Win to play with , and with a 300 gr bullet, speeds in excess of 2200 fps are easily attainable.
Y'all have fun with the Classic!
This is the answer I got from "Chuck Hawks" on load pressures for the H&R;
The SAAMI maximum average pressure standard for the .45-70 is 28,000 cup. I would suggest that you do not exceed that pressure under any circumstances. Most reloading manuals divide .45-70 loads into three categories, standard SAAMI pressure loads (trapdoor Springfield loads), high pressure loads for modern Marlin and Browning lever action rifles, and extra high pressure loads for the Ruger No. 1 and Browning High Wall. If I were loading for an H&R single shot rifle I would stick with loads in the first category.
The SAAMI maximum average pressure standard for the .45-70 is 28,000 cup. I would suggest that you do not exceed that pressure under any circumstances. Most reloading manuals divide .45-70 loads into three categories, standard SAAMI pressure loads (trapdoor Springfield loads), high pressure loads for modern Marlin and Browning lever action rifles, and extra high pressure loads for the Ruger No. 1 and Browning High Wall. If I were loading for an H&R single shot rifle I would stick with loads in the first category.
Huntsman
what are the SAMMI pressures for 450 marlin and 500 S&W, both of which are or were available in a handi.
Check out http://www.garrettcartridges.com/products.asp you will see NEF are rated for all but the 500 grain loads and that has probably go more to do with through than anything
Now those +p my not be practical, due to the nasty recoil they would develp in that little gun but to limit it to trapdoor levels due to pressure is just wrong.
Pasted from the Garret site
"GARRETT'S 45-70 HAMMERHEAD AMMO
$55 / 20 CTGS
420-GR SUPER-HARD-CAST GAS-CHECKED HAMMERHEAD AT 1850-FPS
THIS 45-70 AMMUNITION IS RECOMMENDED FOR USE ONLY IN MODERN WINCHESTER, BROWNING, RUGER, MARLIN, NEF, AND SHILOH SHARPS RIFLES.
ENERGY: 3200 FT/LBS; TAYLOR KNOCKOUT VALUE: 51; MEPLAT: .330"; CHAMBER PRESSURE: 35,000-CUP; SECTIONAL DENSITY: .287; TRAJECTORY: +3" @ 100-YDS; ZERO @ 150-YDS; -7" @ 200-YDS"
what are the SAMMI pressures for 450 marlin and 500 S&W, both of which are or were available in a handi.
Check out http://www.garrettcartridges.com/products.asp you will see NEF are rated for all but the 500 grain loads and that has probably go more to do with through than anything
Now those +p my not be practical, due to the nasty recoil they would develp in that little gun but to limit it to trapdoor levels due to pressure is just wrong.
Pasted from the Garret site
"GARRETT'S 45-70 HAMMERHEAD AMMO
$55 / 20 CTGS
420-GR SUPER-HARD-CAST GAS-CHECKED HAMMERHEAD AT 1850-FPS
THIS 45-70 AMMUNITION IS RECOMMENDED FOR USE ONLY IN MODERN WINCHESTER, BROWNING, RUGER, MARLIN, NEF, AND SHILOH SHARPS RIFLES.
ENERGY: 3200 FT/LBS; TAYLOR KNOCKOUT VALUE: 51; MEPLAT: .330"; CHAMBER PRESSURE: 35,000-CUP; SECTIONAL DENSITY: .287; TRAJECTORY: +3" @ 100-YDS; ZERO @ 150-YDS; -7" @ 200-YDS"
