H110 min loads for 44mag (rifle)

[604shooter]

I'm loading 240gr XTPs in a 44mag with H110 for a Marlin 1894. Now according to Hodgdon H110 should NOT be reduced more than 3% from max. They list a min/max Nosler 240gr JHP at 23 - 24. However, Hornady's min/max load is 19.4 - 24.8 which is a 22% reduction.

Obviously, Hornady's data is safe in what they tested, but why such a huge discrepancy between the two? Where should I begin???

 

[Buck45]

I just checked Lymans new book that 23 grain is still the start load with 240 grain XTP. Even Winchester had it at 24 ..of 296 almost same powder.

I went down to 22 of 296 same type of rifle mine is a winchester 94ae. I load at 23.1 296 great load but its crisp. Have not used chrono yet.
I would not go below 21 for starter re all the warnings re under charged 296 and H110.

 

[josquin]

I'm loading 240gr XTPs in a 44mag with H110 for a Marlin 1894. Now according to Hodgdon H110 should NOT be reduced more than 3% from max. They list a min/max Nosler 240gr JHP at 23 - 24. However, Hornady's min/max load is 19.4 - 24.8 which is a 22% reduction.

Obviously, Hornady's data is safe in what they tested, but why such a huge discrepancy between the two? Where should I begin???

Sounds very suspicious. Every reference I've seen to H110 (=W296, same powder) is to reduce by no more than 3%. Can't remember the reason now, but it may be something to do with potential detonation if reduced too far. You might get away with 4%, but 22%? Lash the gun down on a day with no one around and fire via a long string!

I'd begin by contacting Hornady directly because it seems to go against all other published data. (And post their reply for the rest of us.)

If you want to reduce loads a bit I'd try 2400. But if you want max. loads H110 is pretty well it.

Stuart

 

[604shooter]

I just checked Lymans new book that 23 grain is still the start load with 240 grain XTP. Even Winchester had it at 24 ..of 296 almost same powder.

I went down to 22 of 296 same type of rifle mine is a winchester 94ae. I load at 23.1 296 great load but its crisp. Have not used chrono yet.
I would not go below 21 for starter re all the warnings re under charged 296 and H110.

Thanks for taking the time to confirm Buck45.

Sounds very suspicious. Every reference I've seen to H110 (=W296, same powder) is to reduce by no more than 3%. Can't remember the reason now, but it may be something to do with potential detonation if reduced too far. You might get away with 4%, but 22%? Lash the gun down on a day with no one around and fire via a long string!

I'd begin by contacting Hornady directly because it seems to go against all other published data. (And post their reply for the rest of us.)

If you want to reduce loads a bit I'd try 2400. But if you want max. loads H110 is pretty well it.

Stuart

I thought so too, hence my reason for checking with the resident CGN reloading veterans . I've looked at Hornady's 7th manual updates listed here http://www.hornady.com/media/7th_errata2.pdf but there's nothing for the 44mag.

 

[John Y Cannuck]

Your 1894 Marlin, if in good condition, is lots strong enough to start at Hogdon's suggested starting load.

 

[Onagoth]

I'm not sure if I am just recanting what Buck45 said, but 49th Lyman says start load of 23.5, max load of 24.5 (ie, a 4% reduction from max).

This is for a 240 gr JHP

 

[H4831]

The Lyman postol and Revolver Handbook, 1978 edition. Their only mention of low loading is, what has been said on these postings so often, a very light load may stick a jacketed bullet in the barrel.
With H110 and 240 grain Speer jacketed, their starting load, and they use the word, "suggested," is 19.6 and the max as 24.5.
With the 265 grain Hornady FP, they show suggested starting load of 17.9 grains of H110 and a max load of 22.8.
My own notes on loading H110 in the 44 magnum with 250 grain cast, show I have varried the loading from 25 grains max, down to 17 grains.
I was checking for accuracy and actually, the 17 grain load was pretty accurate.
The lawyers trying to keep the loading companies from being sued, from any angle they can come up with, has sure taken the fun out of reloading for the new reloaders. You guys worry so much, I don't see how you can enjoy handloading.

 

[josquin]

.... You guys worry so much, I don't see how you can enjoy handloading.

Well, a certain amount of misery builds character I guess it's a bit like "don't use Federal primers in the Lee Autoprime..." just in case. I'd rather err on the side of caution unless there is clear evidence (such as yours) that the warnings are excessive, rather than face the quincequonces.

Speaking of lawyers, H110 and the .44 mag., I was up at the range yesterday testing bullet penetration with my 1894 and 240 gn. XTP, 265 gn. FP (both with H110) and Bullet Barn 240 gn RNFP (with 2400). Just about every exit hole was in an advert for a law firm!

I already posted this on another forum so, with apologies for the hijack, here are the results if anyone is interested:

The test medium was newsprint alternating with 1/2" ply:

I made one bundle for each bullet type and fired at 25 yards.

The Hornady 265 gn. FP over 21.9 gr. of H110 just penetrated the last board and dented the newsprint of the last bundle:

(Hmmm... the bullet landed on an advert for a law firm!)

I then fired a 240 gn. XTP over 23 gr. of H110 at the second bundle. It did nearly as well, but stopped at the beginning of the last piece of 1/2" ply:

(Well, I'll be... that one ended up in an advert for another law firm!

I then fired a the Bullet Barn 240 gn. RNFP, over 20 gr. of 2400. It went clear through the entire bundle and couldn't be found. I repeated the test with a piece of 2 x 12" at the back. It went through that as well, but I discovered some fragments stuck in the board below the exit hole. Perhaps it hit a rock in the berm and shattered and a piece came back???

Now you're not going to believe this, but the back page of the phone book in the RNFP bundle had an ad for....
the same law firm as in the 265 FP test! (This pic was taken before adding the 2 x 12.)

There's gotta be a message here.

As to the condition of the bullets after their ordeal:

I don't know how useful this is in the real world; wet newsprint and plywood is a pretty severe test. No question the RNFP wins hands down for penetration, though.

Stuart

 

[Cerdan]

I consistently enjoy the sober, experienced, level-headed contributions of our forum elders like H4831, ben hunchak and others. Corporate interests and the lawsuit culture we live in could indeed take the fun out of reloading, as well as a lot of other aspects of our daily lives.

I'm happy to say, as a fledgling handloader, that I very much enjoy handloading, that I'll always question so-called "established facts" until I'm satisfied of their origins, and that I'll keep relying on common sense and thorough methodology to safely experiment with my hobby, no matter what the manuals may say.

 

[H4831]

Sure some beautiful mushroom bullets. Just like in an advertisement!
When I was chronographing max loads in 44 mag revolvers, I too found that 22 grains of 2400 gave about 100 more feet per second, than did 24.5 of
H110. I think it was also the highest pressure load.

 

[redflag]

I use hodgdon hs-6 or titegroup with 240 grain bullets for general plinking, you can play with your load a lot, when i want full loads in the .44 mag, i use w 296 or h 110, these powder are not intended for low velocity loads, hope it helps.