handloading disappointment

Onagoth

Onagoth

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I have posted for help on this same subject before and got a lot of good feedback, I put some of that feedback into practice, but haven't had any improvement.

I have just started getting into reloading for my 22-250 and have chosen H380 (38.0 gr) with a 55 grain jacketed V-max bullet. I started off using factory new brass. I weighed exactly 38 grains of powder using a digital scale and seated the bullet to 2.345, 2.340 and 2.33.

Also FIY, I didn't do anything to the new brass other than debur the outside and inside of the case mouth. I am using Winchester large rifle primers, the ones recommended in the manual.

Here are my results for the seating depths, 2.33 on the top, 2.34 on the bottom

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I don't have a photo for the 2.345", but it wasn't much better.

Am I still doing something wrong, or this is just the wrong load. I know certain guns prefer different loads, but I didn't think handloading would give me this much variation, even if its the wrong load for my gun.

Thanks for any feedback
 
Yikes
There are a whole bunch of things that you could check.
Scope tightness, barrel free floated or not (there may be a pressure point), your OAL may be wrong if you didn't measure it are a few places to start. I'm sure you will get other feedback but these can be easily checked.
 
How does the rifle perform with factory ammunition?
You cannot assume that a single powder charge is going to give best performance.
Are the overall lengths you mentionned based on proximity of the bullet's ogive to the leade, or are they arbitrary lengths unrelated to your rifle?
 
My rifle shoots really well with factory ammo, around 0.7" with winchester 45 gr bullets.

The OAL numbers comes primarily from the manual, and I choose seating depths between that OAL and the OAL of the factory ammo which my gun seems to prefer.

Other CGNer's have given me advice on how to determine the OAL of my rifle, (by seating a bullet long and adjusting backwards until rifling markings disappear), but it seems that rifling markings disappear at lengths beyond the published max OAL length in the manual, like say 2.5" where the noted max OAL length is 2.35" is this a problem??
 
Gasp ... Try changing up the components - powders and bullets. Try to mimick the factory load, ie lighter bullet and different powder (ie not a ball powder!) Bet you a six pack this solves your problem...
Playing around with OAL isnt going to help your problem. OAL adjustment is just a "tweak" once you've got a working load. The principal tuning variant is bullet weight, then powder. Right now it looks like you've got neither of these.
 
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Onagoth said:
My rifle shoots really well with factory ammo, around 0.7" with winchester 45 gr bullets.

The OAL numbers comes primarily from the manual, and I choose seating depths between that OAL and the OAL of the factory ammo which my gun seems to prefer.

Other CGNer's have given me advice on how to determine the OAL of my rifle, (by seating a bullet long and adjusting backwards until rifling markings disappear), but it seems that rifling markings disappear at lengths beyond the published max OAL length in the manual, like say 2.5" where the noted max OAL length is 2.35" is this a problem??
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maybe the 55 is too much bullet for your rifling? try handloading some 45grain
 
Hi
Reloading means that you can find what is best in your gun.
I use IMR 4320 available just about anywhere Min = 35 grns Max = 38.5 with a 45 grn Barns or any of the others.
Start at min and load 5 of each using a 1 grn increment for each of the next 5 so on and so on.
Go to the range and test starting at the Min load.
In my rifle it wants Max loads yours may be different.
 
One recommendation that I would make,is to start with a starting load,and work up from there while watching for pressure signs.38gr of H380 is a maximum load for 55gr bullets in the 22-250 in my manuals.In fact it is above the maximum load in one of my manuals.
Starting with loads that hot is a risky practise.
 
Hey Oganoth try IMR 4895 or Varget powder I have found these to be the best for me I have spent the last year loading different stuff for my .223 AR/Mini-14 and my Savage 22-250. I have not done any 55Gr. for my Savage yet but just purchased 300 brass and am going to start working with 55s in the new year. In 22-250 With a 55Gr. bullet try4895 or Varget at 34Grs powder and you can safely work up to 36.5 with an O.A.L. of 2.350 I would build 6@ 34Gr 6@ 35Gr 6@36 Grs with either powder Then hit the range:) I have used all primers as long as your consistent this apply's to the brass also. Let me know how this works O and what kind of gun?????
Pete.....
 
Try the 50grn V-Max I find they shoot well in most 22-250's. My mod 70 shot about like yours with H380. I have had good sucess with IMR4895 in a few
22-250's.
Good luck
 
I find that using the Hodgedon website http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp gives really good info for loads. It does show the load you're trying on the site and actually shows you could go as high as 41 grains of H380 with a 55 gr Speer SP bullet, but if it's not working I wouldn't bother.
If it's a rifle you've never loaded or bullet for that matter I always start right around minimum and work up as has been mentioned.
I don't have any experience with H380, but would recommend Varget as an awesome all around powder. The website says that with a 55 gr bullet (Speer soft point though) you can go from 34grains of Varget getting 3490 fps up to 36.5 with 3664 fps velocity, Overall length of 2.350... just keep it simple to start.
 
In 22-250 With a 55Gr. bullet try4895 or Varget at 34Grs powder and you can safely work up to 36.5 with an O.A.L. of 2.350
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How do you know that 36.5gr will be safe in his rifle with either of those powders and 55gr bullets?Do you make that assumption because one manual lists a load of 36.5gr with those powders and a 55gr bullet?I happen to have three manuals that list maximum loads of no more than 35 gr with 55gr bullets,and those powders,and the starting loads are 30gr to 31gr.
Just because a load is listed in a manual does not mean that it will be safe in all guns chambered for that cartridge.And when that load is above the maximum load listed in a few other manuals,the odds are that it will produce excessive pressure in some guns.

It does show the load you're trying on the site and actually shows you could go as high as 41 grains of H380 with a 55 gr Speer SP bullet,
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That load may have been safe in one rifle,with one lot# of powder,and with one particular primer and bullet.That does not mean that the load will be safe with another lot# of powder,or in another gun.Hence the warning to start with a starting load and work up while watching for pressure signs.
 
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If it's on the Hodgedon site it's very likely safe as the site is updated regularly (unlike books) and it's endorsed by three powder companies that would like people to keep re-loading. I'm certain they actually allow for a lot of lee way in giving out maximum load data and most rifles could take a lot more in terms of pressure in reality, but they play it safe.
You're correct though, that nothing is guaranteed. In order to access the site you sign a waiver in fact. Nothing in life is certain, except death and taxes, but I would look at a few sources of load data if I was really worried and take the average just to be safe.
If your rifle has an internal flaw around the chamber... well how do someone take that into account?!
 
I'm certain they actually allow for a lot of lee way in giving out maximum load data and most rifles could take a lot more in terms of pressure in reality, but they play it safe.
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Actually the actions themselves will take a great deal more pressure than most loads listed in manuals for a single shot.However the action can fatigue over time from loads that would never rupture an action in a single shot.

The simple fact is that a brass case will normally fail long before the action fails,and a ruptured case can easily result in serious injury.

You're correct though, that nothing is guaranteed. In order to access the site you sign a waiver in fact.
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And why do you suppose the waiver exists if the people publishing the reloading data allow so much lee way in the maximum loads?If there was a big safety factor,the waivers would not be necessary.

Nothing in life is certain, except death and taxes, but I would look at a few sources of load data if I was really worried and take the average just to be safe.
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I have a Speer manual that lists a maximum load of 39gr of H380,A Sierra manual that lists 38gr of H380,the 26th edition Hodgdons manual that shows a maximum load of 37gr of H380,and a Nosler manual that shows a max load of 35.5gr of H380,all with 55gr bullets in the 22-250.That 41gr load contains a full two grains more than any of the other maximum loads that I have listed,and 5.5gr more than the smallest powder charge.

How do you explain a spread of 5.5gr or around 14% between the manuals with the same powder,and the same bullet weight?Now remember,some manuals do list chamber pressures,and those chamber pressures are normally just below,or even right at, the SAAMI design pressures for the cartridge.So much for a lot of leeway.

With such variations in published maximum loads,it is relatively easy to explain the situations where pressure signs occur with less than the maximum listed powder charges.It actually happens fairly often,and it does not require a flaw in the gun for it to occur.

Now if you still feel that all published maximum loads are perfectly safe in all rifles,that is your choice,but please don't encourage other people to risk their guns and their personal safety on that supposed "leeway" that is built into the manuals.
 
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I am far from a expert re-loader but...You said you chose 38grn of powder? Did you work from the min to the max suggested powder load? I have found that as I work through loads starting from min I will get wide groups..then as the powder charge increases the groups will tighten up until I pass the sweet spot then my groups will widen out again. Sometimes dramatically.

So what I do is load 5 rds each in .5 increments min to max. I then take the group of 5 that was the tightest and load that one again and .2 and .4 to either side of it.

Say your best group was at 38grn after the .5 increment set you would then load at 37.6 37.8 38 38.2 38.4 and pick the best from that. I usually stop there but you could further refine if you wish.

Oh and +1 On Varget. I reload mainly for my AR and she loves Varget.
 
If you

are confident that all is well with the gun, bases and rings tight etc. etc., and it shoots well with the factory ammo you stated then I would go from here.

Win brass is good.
Larger primers, any should do but I would not use magnum in the small 22-250case. Stay with what you have for now.

The first thing I would do is to determine what your JUST jam length is for the given bullet you want to shoot. I take it you understand how to accomplish this. When you have that value mark it down in a book to keep tabs of it. Ideally a bullet comparator should be used and not the OAL from base to tip.

When I start up a load I add 5 thou to the just jam length and load from there. The just jam is no man's land. As mass produced bullets are not perfect you could be just in or just off the lands. This way if you start 5 thou in you should be in.

Since you have H380 on hand play with it. According to the new Hodgdon 2009 book it has the greatest load density so should HOPEFULLY be a good choice in powder.

Starting load for a 55gr bullet in the NEW 2009 Hodgdon Reloading Magazine is 38 grs up to a max of 41 grs. Start at 38 and make 3 bullets for each weight in powder you want going up in 1/2 gr increments 38, 38.5, 39 etc. I would not use less than half because you will drive yourself crazy tryng to figure out if there is a difference in load. The 1/2 gr changes should be quite noticeable. Work your way up watching for the tell tale pressure signs.

If you find a load that appears to work load up more of that load to confirm it works for you.

When you have what you think is the best load then you can start playing with seating depths and your pet load. I would go 5 thou into lands, 10 thou, 15 thou, 20 thou and see what works best. If nothing better than your pet load and x amount of grains and 5 thou in, seat the bullet deeper into the case and have 5 thou jump, 10 thou, 15 thou, 20 thou and see if anything is better.

If you find a depth that works with x amount grains of powder then you can try with different amounts of powder in say .3 of a grain instead of .5.

If still not happy with load it is time to change up powder or bullet but not both. I would start by trying a different bullet B4 powder.

When I had my Rem 700 22-250 I preferred slower powders like 4064 and 4895 and did not push them to hard.

Hopes this helps. These are just my thoughts on load development.

Vex was faster on the draw but basically what he said is the way to do it.
 
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To further complicate things.
I use 34.0gn of IMR4230 (3100 fps) or alternatively 25.5gn of IMR4198 (3030 fps) for a 55gn Win Bulk bullet and groups under 0.3" I really do not see any reason to make them go any faster.
I do prefer the 4198...I'm cheap...less powder = less expense.
 
gallen270 said:
maybe the 55 is too much bullet for your rifling? try handloading some 45grain
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That's my thought too. Different powder loads don't usually result in 5"+ groups in a rifle that can shoot sub-moa with factory ammo. 5"+ groups say (to me anyway) that your rifle is not not stabilizing your bullets.

Any idea what the rate of twist is?
 
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