Hard extractions. Help CGN.

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MFP

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Good day CGN,

I need some ideas. Something that I am doing in my reloading process, specifically in the cleaning resizing deburring area, is causing hard extractions. I was reloading for a factory Remington 308 but I recently got a custom 308 barrel from JC Customs. Factory ammo loads, fires, and extracts no problem. My handloads will load just fine, then extraction is always sticky, sometimes I have to use a lot of muscle to get that bolt back. I thought maybe it was my crappy FC brass so I went out and bought some Sig brass. The problem went away! I fired all 100 of my hand loads in the new Sig brass and I could cycle my bolt with one finger.

Then all 100 were fired and it was time for case prep. So I go through my process:

- Decap all brass with decapping die
- Ultrasonic cleaner with water and a few drops of dawn
- Rinse and let dry
- Full length resize with RCBS die, with RCBS shell holder, and RCBS press making sure each pull cams over
- Trim to 2.005" which is the trim to length in my Lyman manual
- Chamfer and debur
- Back into the ultrasonic cleaner with just water
- Rinse and let dry
- Prime, powder, seat bullet

So, my go to load which is Fed GM primer, 45.2gr Varget, 175gr SMK HPBT, fired with no problems out of the Sig brass when it was brand new out of the bag. Then I went through the above process and it's back to sticky extractions. I'm doing something wrong because factory ammo extracts fine, my handloads with brand new brass extracts fine, but the exact same load with once fired brass is causing sticky extractions.

Give me some ideas on what I'm doing wrong. I'm stumped.
 
When you say "sticky" what do you mean by that? Heavy Bolt lift or too tight in the chamber (hard to pull back the bolt)

When your FL sizing your brass how much are you bumping your shoulder back?

Your new barrel will be significantly tighter than the factory barrel. Tighter = higher pressure

I got a couple of theories for you, to be proven by you

1) Your new chamber is tight so you'll have to adjust your sizing with the FL die. a friend has a browning rifle and I have a custom Insite rifle, both in 6.5 CM. his fired brass won't fit in my chamber. With the case gauge, my brass expands to 3 thou larger than saami spec, his brass in his browning is 12 thou larger than saami spec. Thats a big difference. What do your primers look like? are they mushroomed at all?

Kind of related but:

2) Your load is too hot for the new chamber. This is what I actually think it is. Your load is 0.2 gr over book max for Varget according to hodgdon, combine that with a tight custom chamber you're probably seeing some pretty high pressures. I think the reason why you never saw any issues with the first firing of that brass is because you where technically fire forming it to your chamber.

3) your process is fine, I would recommend getting better brass, Lapua or Peterson are both excellent. There is a reason why most pro shooters use either of those brands. I've been using this brass for years now and have noticed a lot less issues. I had some Hornady brass for a 308, used it being cheap and had problems. Lapua or Peterson all the way

Hope that helps! Your seating depth for your bullets could solve that issue as well. I'm ALWAYS longer than book spec and I size so they fit in the mags comfortable. Check your COAL or OJIVE length and confirm. I have one rifle that is technically over book max but my COAL is way longer than book spec so I have zero pressure issues. Shoots extremely well too.
 
Thanks Mareshow,

So when I say sticky I mean I can lift the bolt fine but it's difficult to pull back.

I put my brass into the full length die until it cams over. I have never done any shoulder bumping and honestly don't know how bump the shoulders back with my RCBS FL die. How do I adjust sizing with an FL die?
 
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I read some more forums and some people are saying fired brass can be less forgiving to high pressures. Maybe my load at 45.2gr Varget was on the cusp of being too hot in virgin brass and now that it's once fired, the pressure is too high.
 
OP,
If, your reloads do not show signs of overpressure-primer strike,primer radius,ejector swipes-

Your issue is Primary Extraction w/ any Remington 2 lug bolt action.

The bolt/handle on any Rem 2 lug bolt is TIMED into Battery & NOT for Primary Extraction.

DO NOT beat on said handle or you will pop the bolt handle off the bolt body.
 
MFP said:
Thanks Mareshow,

So when I say sticky I mean I can lift the bolt fine but it's difficult to pull back.

I put my brass into the full length die until it cams over. I have never done any shoulder bumping and honestly don't know how bump the shoulders back with my RCBS FL die. How do I adjust sizing with an FL die?
Click to expand...

MFP said:
I read some more forums and some people are saying fired brass can be less forgiving to high pressures. Maybe my load at 45.2gr Varget was on the cusp of being too hot in virgin brass and now that it's once fired, the pressure is too high.
Click to expand...


Buy a case gauge (usually around $50), I used to do exactly what you're doing however with some guns I realized I was over sizing my brass. A 2 thou bump is all you need. With my customs, the cam method works because the chambers are proper. With Factory, you'll be oversizing in most cases.

Try some less potent loads to test is the theory is true. If they extract fine then you found your problem.
 
Judging by the problem you are having, I would guess the sizing die isn't sizing the body enough. Have you heard of small base dies?

Just to clarify, this wasn't an issue with the old factory barrel, its only an issue now with the new custom barrel?

Nosler lists 43.5gr of Varget as a max load: https://www.nosler.com/308-winchester#CW9OVMO

So that load might be a bit spicy too.

MFP said:
I'm doing something wrong because factory ammo extracts fine, my handloads with brand new brass extracts fine, but the exact same load with once fired brass is causing sticky extractions.
Click to expand...

This right there makes me think its a problem with your sizing die. Not that the die is out of spec per say, but just not tight enough for your new custom barrel with what is probably a pretty tight chamber.
 
Hitzy said:
Load is too hot for the barrel, turn it down a few grains.
Click to expand...

cosmic said:
As per Hitzy, drop your load a couple of grains and see if it extracts easier.
Click to expand...

Eagleye said:
Ditto. Sounds like a load that is "hot" in that new barrel/chamber. Dave.
Click to expand...

These guys are right on. Pressure issue. COAL too long? Are your crimping; too much? Maybe just a bit too much powder. Drop it about 3 grains and start working back up.
 
The load does not sound too hot, but it could be...

But I'm questioning the chamber, die and brass being used...

If the brass you are starting with is larger than your chamber likes, it is not likely that a regular sizing die will reduce the body diameter enough to resolve the problem being described.

I would suggest that you try using a small base sizing die. That will reduce the body diameter and likely resolve your problem.

To this point... Is there resistance when you close the bolt? If there is, then that would certainly confirm that a small base die would be your solution.

More than likely after being sized one time with a small base die, you will not see the problem again, but if it persists, then just use the small base die every time.
 
If the bolt lifts easy but pulls back hard it's more likely a brass sizing problem but sounds like your load was hot also.
Get a case comparator gauge that measures off the shoulder and learn how to set up your full size die.
There is lots of info on the internet about bumping the shoulder.
 
Brass internal volume can vary a lot from one manufacturer to another ... even from one lot to another lot

Load is too hot for that brass


Also weather (temp) can affect pressure.......... lots with some powders
 
Load is too hot for your circumstance and primary extraction is suspect. Its very common on Remingtons, with the classic situation being that new brass and factory loads work perfect but when given something harder to do the rifle fails you.

Take a look at the camming ramp; I bet there is only a wear pattern at the very top, or none at all.
 
I’ve had the same problem, the reason why mine were doing the same as yours is because I got lazy one day and decided to just wipe the sizing wax off instead of throwing the brass back in the tumbler. The residue was enough to stick my cases and gunk the chamber. Gave the chamber a clean and after another 100 rounds through with clean brass this time and same load it was fine and extracted with ease. Never had a problem after that.
 
Tight neck?
Have you tried dropping a bullet into a piece of fired brass? If it won't drop in easily you may need to turn necks on that brass.
 
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