Hard Primer?

SoBored

SoBored

CGN frequent flyer
EE Expired
Rating - 100%
23   0   0
Location
Grey County, Ontario
I finally got out to the range on Friday afternoon and shot 20 rounds of factory remington .308 and then my first 8 rounds I reloaded myself.

My first reloaded round went click. I was pissed. :mad: So I waited for a minute, ejected the round, checked the primer and it had a light pin mark. Great, I thought my pin spring is screwed or my pin is gummed up somehow. Then I fired the other 7 reloads and they all worked much better than that crap factory stuff. Federal brass, Winchester primer, 40.0grains of IMR 4895 and a Hornady 165 SPBT. I then tried firing it again but it went click a second time.

primerfail.jpg


The middle primer never fired. Anyone know if there can be a hard primer? I don't think it was my rifle.
 
Could you have set the shoulder back too far on that case thus creating a bit of headspace? The whole cartridge would move forward at the initial impact of the firing pin and keep the firing pin from bottoming on the primer.
 
What Stocker says seems the most likely. Suggest you dig out the micrometer and calipers to start.

If that doesn't work, the less-likely things come into play.

I would take your bolt apart, just to be sure it's not a sticky firing pin. Maybe there's a hard bit of crud inside that jams the firing pin every so often. Stranger things have been known to happen. Can you confirm that you heard the action go 'click' when it was supposed to?

Same cases, from the looks of it. Were the primers from the same lot?

I've heard of dud primers, I've heard of cases without a flash-hole but a primer hard enough to resist the firing pin's impact with just that tiny dimple is a new one. I might be tempted to pull the bullet, dump the propellant and then (eye protection, please) try firing the primer with a set punch and hammer. That would provide far more impact that a firing pin and would confirm an overly-tough primer.

If I could find nothing else wrong, I would be tempted to return or toss that lot of primers. They're cheap enough.
 
Can you not clearly see that the seating depth of the round in the center is different from all the rest? Looks to me that your primer seating is all over the place. FS
 
Pretty good chance it is your primer seating depth. Cleaning the primer pocket each time you reload will help, as well as ensuring that the primer is fully seated.
 
Thanks for the ideas, I'll try to answer all the questions.

The cases are so far all the same lot.

All rounds are full length sized and they where trimmed to 2.012" if memory serves. I put some calipers to that round and another case that was full length resized and they both seem the same, it's hard to tell because I'm eyeballing the curve of the shoulder.

The rims are chewed by my Norinco M14 which may need some work, maybe another question for the MBR forum. At that point that round had been chambered 3 times, but yeah, things look pretty grim for long case life, don't even get me started on ejection dings. :mad:

Same lot of primers, same row of my first opened box.

I feel really stupid because I realize now that I don't have a bullet puller. Guess I'll go shopping at lunch tomorrow. Then I'll pull the bullet, stow the powder and set the primer off, (with eye protection, my eyes are bad enough now! ;)), if it even goes. Then I'll mark the case and try it with a new load just to try to diagnose if I'm doing something wrong. I'm guessing it's headspace or bad primer and the sooner I find out the better.

Thanks again guys!
 
Fassteel said:
Can you not clearly see that the seating depth of the round in the center is different from all the rest? Looks to me that your primer seating is all over the place. FS
Click to expand...

It's hard to tell from the pictures but that difference in seating depth you mention is probably primers backing out when the cases are fired. This supports Stocker's excessive head-space theory.

If that is the case is this excessive head-space caused by over-sizing the brass or is the rifle out of spec?
 
Ah crap! Yeah, now I see that. God bless the internet and digital photography!

It is an Norc M14 that hasn't been checked by a smith, maybe headspace is a little big.

As far as primer back out, all I know is that they were my first and fairly mild loads. Trimmed cases with only 40 grains of IMR4895 under a 165 bullet.
 
The rifle has lots of extra headspace, so when you size your brass, try setting your die so it does not quite hit the shell holder. This will avoid pushing the shoulder back so far.

To pull the bullet, put round in your press (no die) and puch bullet up through the die hole and grab it with a pair of pliers, and pull down. Dump powder and deprime, as usual.

Mark case with a felt marker and see if it misfires next time.
 
Great idea Graderite!

The first picture made my primer depth look awful but I think it is a trick of the light. I tried to use my calipers to check depth and I think the primer is flush if not even just a touch proud! The stuff I primed last night looks more uniform.

primers.jpg


This picture shows it clearer I think. I really got to get the hang of my Lee hand primer. :(
 
I'd be inclined to go with the headspace suggestion. As a test, after you pull the bullet, and dump the charge, try firing the primed empty case in the rifle with it pointed straight up.
If it doesn't fire, check to see if the pin impression is at least deeper.
Be aware that even a primer alone can send stuff out the bore at enough speed to cause serious damage.
 
Sorry John, before I saw your post, I had pulled the bullet dumped the powder and struck the primer with a punch about 6 times and it didn't go.
primerhit.jpg

I then deprimed, put the primer on my anvil and smacked it with my 4 pound hammer. It went.

I full length sized everything so I don't know why this would be a headspace issue. Anyway I marked the case and reloaded it and we'll see if it works next time. But what are the odds of getting a bad primer on your very first reloaded cartridge?
 
Headspace on a rimless cartridge is determined by the case length. If you push the shoulder back too far, the case can move forward in the chamber when the primer is struck, causing a light strike.
Evidently, that was not the issue here. It appears your first idea was correct, that the primer had a thick, hard, or double cup. It would be interesting to cut the now dead primer in half, and compare it to a normally fired one.
I've never encountered, or even heard of this issue before.
 
Fassteel said:
Can you not clearly see that the seating depth of the round in the center is different from all the rest? Looks to me that your primer seating is all over the place. FS
Click to expand...

I would be willing to bet that the primers are sitting proud on the fired rounds due to the fact that you are using fairly light loads. IMR's website lists IMR 4895 at a minimum charge of 41.0 grains for a 165 grain bullet. With the added headspace the round gets pushed forward on the fireing pin strike and when the powder goes off the primers get pushed back. If it were a heavier charge you wouldn't see that. As for that perticular primer, I'd say a hard cup or double cup like another poster said.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom