Has Anyone Used This Type Of Powder?

H4831

H4831

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No, I haven't used this type, either!
I picked it up as an antique quite a lot of years ago. It's a metal can, green with re-inforced rings around it, about 3½ inches across and about the same height.
The brass cap has fine, cut threads. The container is about half full of, must be, the original powder. It is vey fine, off white, ashy color.
I can't figure out how to put more than one picture up at a time, so will make another post, with another picture.


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Here is the bottom of the can. Note the convenience of having a built-in loading chart! Note also, that it was patented in 1893, which certainly makes it a very old smokeless powder.
Also, they are saying to use the same amount by volume, as used for black powder.



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I'm thinking that, if they brought out any of the new powders that weren't nitro-for-black back then, alot of people would have blown themselves up, as they were used to loading black and in drams.
 
Neat tin. They sure went overboard on detailed packaging didn't they! Threaded lids! Made in a time when quality came before the price.

Haven't seen a tin quite like that nor as old. Did find my great Uncle's cleaning kit stuffed in an old tobacco tin. Had the Marbles tin of oil still 3/4 full and a pull through wire with patch attached. He's been gone since `65 so it was a suprise to find it around still. Not as old as your tin, but a great score none the less.

Noel
 
California Powder Works (DuPont/Hercules) starts producing Peyton Smokeless Powder in 1893. The next year, they close their Santa Cruz plant, shift powder operations to Hercules, and become the first U.S. company to supply smokeless powder to the military when the army choses Peyton Powder for the Krag-Jorgensen Rifle.
 
I have an early powder can of Laflin & Rand, (with powder) so I googled Laflin & Rand and came up with this. This is just meant to add to the info given by ricciardelli.
The shotgun powder in my can, called, "INFALLIBLE." is completely different to the powder in the Du Pont can in the picture. The L & R powder is black and very thin, tiny flakes. Interestingly, (Ben,) it takes much less of this powder, only 1 1/8 to 1 1/2 drams, for the 12 guage.
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The Laflin & Rand Powder Company was DuPont's leading post-Civil War competitor in the explosives industry, but also an important partner in the Gunpowder Trade Association (GTA). After manufacturing saltpeter for the Massachusetts militia during the Revolutionary War, Irish-born Matthew Laflin built a powder mill in Southwick, Massachusetts, and successfully entered the explosives business. After Laflin died in 1810, his descendants expanded the family business into New York. To better handle the growing complexities of business after the Civil War, the partners incorporated the firm in 1866 as the Laflin Powder Company. A year later, Albert Tyler Rand of the competing Smith & Rand Powder Company proposed uniting the two firms, and in 1869 both sides agreed to merge into the Laflin & Rand Powder Company of New York, with Rand as the new firm's first president.

In 1872 Laflin & Rand collaborated with friendly rival DuPont to establish the GTA, a trust comprising the nation's top explosives manufacturers that sought to regulate the powder industry with price controls, protected territories and sales quotas. The two companies likewise cooperated in the emerging high explosives, or dynamite, field jointly establishing the Repauno Chemical Company in 1880, the Hercules Powder Company in 1882, and the Eastern Dynamite Company in 1895. Their combined efforts at industry consolidation and control were so successful that by 1900, Laflin & Rand and DuPont together commanded over two-thirds of the entire explosives industry.
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It goes on to say that in 1902 Du Pont purchased Laflin & Rand, operating it until near 1912, when the company was disolved.
 
When I was a kid it was not uncommon to find part cans of these powders. It was made by several companies. We just called it bulk shotgun powder. We used equal volume to black powder. The companies may have called it smokeless, but it sure produced lots of white smoke when you shot it.
 
My guess is that it is no longer any good. If it is an ashen grey colour then the nitro likely would have evaporated. Try burning a little outside on a flat surface. It may not even burn. Very nice container. History! Dave
 
John Y, I have a good plan. Next time you are in southern BC. drop in and I will give you a sample to try! Seriously, I have wondered about it being any good and it would be nice to know how it survived. Too bad I live too far from any such thing as a testing lab, where it could be done properly and we would know the exact results. And Dave, I will try burning some. As a matter of fact, I will try burning some as soon as I finish this and let you know on another post. As far as the white color, it may always have been that.
The powder in the Laflin & Rand can looks like any other powder could look; black, with very even, tiny flakes. It must have been made prior to 1912, because that was when the company ended.
So, will now try burning a bit of the Du Pont.
 
I am with the thinking of Dantforth especially the grey ash & I bet you any money that it smells like powder that is to dangerous to reload. I have been handed a few of the same, to also old ammo, from retired gun owners & I say "Thank you" but one look & one sniff is enough for me to dump it for it has probably been in their garage for umpteen yrs cooking away & just about freeaing to death--your life is worth more then chancing it it reloading & trying it.
 
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This is a picture of the powder I just burned. Looking at the picture, I would say my calling it ashy, may not be quite correct. In the sunlight it shows, quite accurately in the picture, as a hint of tan in it.
It burned exactly like fresh powder, of something like 2400, burns. The flame was crysal clear, about three inches high and lasted maybe 3 seconds.
I took a picture of the residue on the can, if anyone wants, I could post it. It was just black specks, stuck to the can, as one would expect.
The powder shown in the outer rings didn't ignite, again, just as one would expect.
 
Looks like you have a winner. You just need some data. If I were closer, I'd be right over. Not that I have any data, but, 'twould be fun.
Could work out a load with what's on the can with a little tinkering.
 
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This Du Pont powder, without a name, patented in August, 1893, must be some of the oldest smokeless powder in existance, other than maybe in museums. The burning experiment was apparently normal.
As a gimmick, or maybe for scientific reasons, it would be nice to see if powder this old is still shootable and would fire in a cartridge with a primer. My opinion is it would be safe to put some in a 45-70 case, load a bullet and fire it in my Marlin. A small amount, say 8 or 10 grains certainly couldn't damage my rifle from pressure. However, it could very well stick the bullet in the barrel, which wouldn't be serious, but I would rather not have it happen.
I wonder if some of the people on here who have a lot of experience with old rifles, black powder, or lots of reloading experaience behind them, etc, give their opinion. I was thinking of people like Winnipeg Toymaker, 38-55, Ben Hunchak, Blacksmithden, Why Not, Johnn Peterson, and many more like them out there, would voice their opinion on this idea.
 
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