Have you heard this? re: Garands and SMLE, WWII

Sly Old Fox

Sly Old Fox

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In the late 40's, early 50's I was a member of a reserve infantry reg't, slaughtered at Dieppe and veterans of the Hockwald. I also spent a couple of summers in the COTC Corps of Infantry as an officer cadet (many RMC types too) and we experienced Van Doo Officers and NCO's as well as RCRs. In France, the Germans quickly learned that if they had a GI pinned down, after he had fired eight rounds, they could safely rush him. But, some Yanks, picked up the SMLEs and .303Br ammo and gave the Germans a nasty surprise.:eek:

Comments, gentlemen.

SOF
 
Sounds like an after a few beers "war story" to me. I doubt there would ever be a single yank to rush, (I doubt the whole squad would run dry at once), and hearing the 'ping' after 8 over 100db muzzle blasts is also an issue. Not as far fetched as the "chuck your sten into the room and have it jump around killing everyone" story, but I call "embellished".
 
Garands & SMLEs WWII?

paulz said:
Sounds like an after a few beers "war story" to me. I doubt there would ever be a single yank to rush, (I doubt the whole squad would run dry at once), and hearing the 'ping' after 8 over 100db muzzle blasts is also an issue. Not as far fetched as the "chuck your sten into the room and have it jump around killing everyone" story, but I call "embellished".
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Your points are well taken. And when mess beer was 18 cents a bottle, yes, questionable.

SOF
 
Sounds plausible to a certain extent. Growing up I had a Girlfriend who's Dad was a Marine in Korea. He said they used to drop the en-blocs on the rocks so they'd twang,then just wait for the Gooks to come running. Of course though these guys carried Johnsons. Truth or not,who knows. It sure made for some good stories though.
 
ipscgraz said:
Johnsons in Korea?

As far as charging a "yank" after 8 rounds, I can replace the 8 round en-bloc clip in a garand and have it back at my shoulder in about 2 seconds.

Hope they could run fast...
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Interesting stories...personally I feel that is the worst thing about the Garand, no ability to top it up during a lull. Oh, I guess you can eject a partial enbloc and put in a full one...but that kind of sucks.

The bolt action system with a magazine disconnect seems best to me...single feed it until the need for speed presents itself...but better yet is the M14 or FNC1 with the ability to top it up with stripper clips.(interesting that none of the other countries that used the FN felt the need for this feature??)

I can imagine those GI's setting those little traps for the NK's...:D
 
ipscgraz said:
Johnsons in Korea?

As far as charging a "yank" after 8 rounds, I can replace the 8 round en-bloc clip in a garand and have it back at my shoulder in about 2 seconds.

Hope they could run fast...
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Last time I checked the yank rifles also came with bayonets. :)
 
If you were close enough to hear the enbloc ping, you would be close enough to get gutted with the bayo on the end of the rifle.
Or shot in the face with the .45.....:)
 
No this is totally true, my granpa told me he read it on the internet, american tactics at the time trained everyone to shoot in sequence so everyone would run out of ammo at the EXACT SAME same time (I know stupiud right, but this was the fourties), then when the whole squad was fumbling for a new enblock, theyd get wiped out from 100 yards away by a guy with a long barrel sniper luger with a shoulder stock and a 32 round snail drum mag. True story, swear to god.


Absoluetly True

I swear
 
cantom said:
Interesting stories...personally I feel that is the worst thing about the Garand, no ability to top it up during a lull. Oh, I guess you can eject a partial enbloc and put in a full one...but that kind of sucks.
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Another myth. I've topped up a half-clip without removing it from the rifle. Below tells you how to load a partially filled clip in the rifle, but it can also be used to top-up a clip. The only downside is that you do lose the chambered round.

From FM 23-5, Chapter 3 Section 12 Para (c.): Partially filled clip. To load a partially filled clip, hold the rifle in the same manner prescribed for a full clip. With the operating rod all the way to the rear, place an empty clip into the receiver. Place the first round into the clip and on the follower, to the left of the follower slide. Press the second round into the clip, exerting a downward, turning motion until the round snaps into place. Load the remaining rounds in the same manner. With the knife edge of the the right hand against the operating rod handle force the operating rod slightly to the rear. Push down on the top round with the right thumb, allowing the bolt to start the top round forward. Remove the right hand and allow the operating rod to go forward.

It also tells you how to load a single round - something else that "can't be done" unless you got a filled en-bloc.
 
bdtyre said:
Another myth. I've topped up a half-clip without removing it from the rifle. Below tells you how to load a partially filled clip in the rifle, but it can also be used to top-up a clip. The only downside is that you do lose the chambered round.

From FM 23-5, Chapter 3 Section 12 Para (c.): Partially filled clip. To load a partially filled clip, hold the rifle in the same manner prescribed for a full clip. With the operating rod all the way to the rear, place an empty clip into the receiver. Place the first round into the clip and on the follower, to the left of the follower slide. Press the second round into the clip, exerting a downward, turning motion until the round snaps into place. Load the remaining rounds in the same manner. With the knife edge of the the right hand against the operating rod handle force the operating rod slightly to the rear. Push down on the top round with the right thumb, allowing the bolt to start the top round forward. Remove the right hand and allow the operating rod to go forward.

It also tells you how to load a single round - something else that "can't be done" unless you got a filled en-bloc.
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That is interesting. Do you mind clarifying the source for this for this please?
 
This site comes up most often:
www.biggerhammer.net/manuals/garand/

I have seen this on other sites as well.

When topping-up a clip, you have to make sure you keep pressure on the oprod so it doesn't slam forward while you're putting rounds in. Its not easy, and I wouldn't want to have to do it in a firefight, but it can be done.
 
For what it's worth I remember reading about GI's on Iwo Jima that discovered the Japanese would rush a foxhole when fighting at night if they heard the Garand "ping". So the story went the Yanks would have a GI empty his Garand and then wait for a charge. They would then open up with Thompsons and deal with it. I can't recall the source, it was from a book on the battle for Iwo Jima. Maybe it is a post war myth but it sure got my attention when I first read it.
 
bdtyre said:
This site comes up most often:
www.biggerhammer.net/manuals/garand/

I have seen this on other sites as well.

When topping-up a clip, you have to make sure you keep pressure on the oprod so it doesn't slam forward while you're putting rounds in. Its not easy, and I wouldn't want to have to do it in a firefight, but it can be done.
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Great, thank you. :cool:
 
It seems reasonable when you consider the Japs were fanatical as heck and would be charging the foxhole anyway so if you gave them some sort of signal that it was a good opportunity they probably would take it. Also some mean Jap sergeant might tell his green troops that now was the time to go just to get them moving. Think about how nuts those guys were and it seems a lot more reasonable. Also if the tactic of waiting for the "ping" had worked a few times they would be that much more eager to try it again.

I just read a WW1 memoir called "A Rifleman went to War" and some of the things they did seem totally unbelievable. One part that sticks in my mind is the author talking about "Going over the top". When bullets were flying around killing people on the left and right he said you just had to tell yourself that "there was a lot more room between the bullets and chances are you would not be hit"!
 
I heard that this sometimes did happen in built up areas. But after a while, the Yanks would carry some empty enbloc with them and every so often, toss one on the floor, and get the same reaction from the Krauts.... and of course the Germans got a nasty supprise.... needless to say... ;o)
 
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