Heavy Barrels
- Thread starter mikeg81
- Start date
skeetgunner
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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- Burlington
I thought so....but then I saw/shot a Savage Mark II (wood, blued, standard barrel, non-accutrigger) in HM2 last night. Looks like its got the trigger off the 64B.
Who knew?
Absolutely! There's no comparison between my factory Ruger 10/22 20" barrel from my 10/22 RR to the 20" Green Mountain bull barrel that I replaced it with. It can now EASILY shoot 0.5" groups at 50 yards with the cheapest ammo that will chamber properly.
Now this is probably more due to the fact that most bull barrels are made with match chambers and have tighter tolerances all around to begin with, not necessarily due to the contour of the barrel.
Just take a look at group of a heavy barrel in the hands of Eagleye
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=263008
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=263008
Heavy barrels make a difference, even in rimfire. They are heavy, stiff and resist vibration. Even the 22 rimfire is sensitive to the reaction of the barrel and the action and stock. I notice even the pressure I place on the stock and butt to to my shoulder makes a big difference in grouping.
Its comparing apples and oranges to attribute the accuracy of 17hmr to the barrel alone. You have to look at the ammunition itself. 17hmr is typically a well manufactured cartridge held to stricter tolerances, at least compared to standard 22 rimfire. That alone narrows the gap of accuracy to some degree. There are some good accurate 22WMR guns, they may be well made and well matched to the ammunition to perform their best.
Its comparing apples and oranges to attribute the accuracy of 17hmr to the barrel alone. You have to look at the ammunition itself. 17hmr is typically a well manufactured cartridge held to stricter tolerances, at least compared to standard 22 rimfire. That alone narrows the gap of accuracy to some degree. There are some good accurate 22WMR guns, they may be well made and well matched to the ammunition to perform their best.
Accuracy.......a relative term, at best!! But yes, HB 22 rimfires tend to stay more stable than their lighter counterparts. It's very rare to see a sporter weight barrel in a rimfire benchrest competition. My HB rifles include a 52A Winchester, 52C Winchester, 504 Match Remington, 40X Remington, and I have coming a Match 54 Anschutz. I have several "sporters" that have slightly stouter barrels than normal sporters usually have, and they all do quite well, but most cannot hang with the "big" dogs over the long haul. Then there are the sporters with light, whippy barrels. These tend to shoot "looser" than do the heavier barrelled rifles, although the odd one displays surprising accuracy. That's the interesting thing about firearms....you can get a surprise from a rifle that you may have thought was an unlikely candidate for the title of "Tackdriver" For a 22 to be truly accurate, it must have a match chamber. This means it will engrave the bullet when a cartridge is chambered. Some sporter rifles were made with match Chambers. I have three, a 541S & a 541T Remington, and a 504 sporter with a Lilja Barrel. These are very accurate, and have won matches from time to time. It all depends what you want your rifle for. If it is going to be carried a fair amount, an accurate sporter is obviously best. If you are shooting bench rest or from one location in a gopher field, then the heavy is an advantage. Another thing about that heavy barrel. It seems to stay more stable on the rest when you are shooting at the bench. Has to count for something as well. Regards, Eagleye.
heavy barrel = stiffer (reduces vibration and whip) & takes longer to heat up (and conversly longer to cool down). BIG reason why the browning .50 cal comes in the HEAVY barrel version (on top of hummers) and the light infantry version. You can shoot a LOT more before the barrel gets hot.
The book competitive shooter has a lot on heavy barrels and the sinosidal wave form that affects it. basically what it comes down to is that you want the waveform to be at 0 at the end of your barrel, for .308 I think that magic number is around 21.75" barrel length for .17 HMR I don't have the foggiest idea.
cheers
The book competitive shooter has a lot on heavy barrels and the sinosidal wave form that affects it. basically what it comes down to is that you want the waveform to be at 0 at the end of your barrel, for .308 I think that magic number is around 21.75" barrel length for .17 HMR I don't have the foggiest idea.
cheers
I have a cheapo CIL .22 made in the 70's. The barrel is 21" and relatively thin. It is the most accurate gun I own (on scale anyhow - at distances each of my guns are supposed to be shot at)
I shot 200 rounds last night as fast as I could without stopping, and the barrel was just warm. I think heavy barrels are overrated as far as keeping the barrel cooler, etc, as this little pencil barrelled hippie leftover is friggin accurate as all hell and takes about a full brick to be considered "hot to touch"
I shot 200 rounds last night as fast as I could without stopping, and the barrel was just warm. I think heavy barrels are overrated as far as keeping the barrel cooler, etc, as this little pencil barrelled hippie leftover is friggin accurate as all hell and takes about a full brick to be considered "hot to touch"
I don't think heavy barrels are overrated. They are an absolute must on all 22 rifles, be it range benchrest, 3p, silhouette turkey shoots or whatever. My field rifles are heavy barreled as well, I do not mind carrying some extra weight - it pays later.
Heavy barrels work in more than one way - they are accurate in much wider range of ammo instead of just one pet ammo that sporter barrel would prefer. And they are generally more accurate, someone somewhere may stand by his beloved sporter but the truth is - its just an exception, as a rule heavy barrel wins.
Heavy barrel also dampens a little bit of drift and a little bit of lousy triggerwork and a tiny little bit of a flinch in a new shooter. In other words - heavy barrels make beginners to shoot better, noticeably so.
Heavy barrels work in more than one way - they are accurate in much wider range of ammo instead of just one pet ammo that sporter barrel would prefer. And they are generally more accurate, someone somewhere may stand by his beloved sporter but the truth is - its just an exception, as a rule heavy barrel wins.
Heavy barrel also dampens a little bit of drift and a little bit of lousy triggerwork and a tiny little bit of a flinch in a new shooter. In other words - heavy barrels make beginners to shoot better, noticeably so.
I've always been a fan of heavy barrels. That being said I think Eagleye has touched on something that some of us have noticed. That there are thin barrels out there that can be very accurate and can run with some of the heavy barrels. That being said for ultimate accuracy IE bench rest I would suspect that a top match grade heavy barrel will win out for all of the reasons allready stated. All bull barrels aren't necessarily made equal.
I recently bought a Walther KKM in a custom thumbhole stock. Thin barrel yet at the 30 yards I was shooting it showed remarkable accuracy. In fact it was possibly more accurate than my Heavy barrelled Kimber SVT.
But.. then we go back to the quality of the bull barrel. Put in a top grade match bull barrel and I doubt the thin barreled rifle would keep up.
Eventually that Walther KKM will probably have a top grade bull barrel on it. I'll keep the thin barrels on sporters.
I recently bought a Walther KKM in a custom thumbhole stock. Thin barrel yet at the 30 yards I was shooting it showed remarkable accuracy. In fact it was possibly more accurate than my Heavy barrelled Kimber SVT.
But.. then we go back to the quality of the bull barrel. Put in a top grade match bull barrel and I doubt the thin barreled rifle would keep up.
Eventually that Walther KKM will probably have a top grade bull barrel on it. I'll keep the thin barrels on sporters.
I don't have a great deal of experience shooting RF match rifles, but I do know a little about barrels. All things being equal, the weight will generally not affect accuracy on its own, but the heavier a barrel is, the more resistance to it has to movement. Simply put, a heavier barrel is easier to aim. I would worry less about its shape than the quality it has on the INSIDE.
I know a heavier barrel is easier to steady but in terms of giving an advantage in accuracy, I'm not convinced. I have a VQ Carbon Fibre barrel on my 10/22 and its one of the lightest AND most accurate barrels I own. Easy .5" group at 50yds. They say heat dispensation is better with a heavier barrel but that's all I can figure out.
I would like to make it clear that I am in no way denigrating your comment regarding that VQ barrel. Undoubtedly, you are very happy with it's accuracy. However, any barrel [HB or lighter] that will not consistently stay in the .2's at 50 is not going to win any matches, trust me! Here's an example of which I speak. Regards, Eagleye.
I would like to make it clear that I am in no way denigrating your comment regarding that VQ barrel. Undoubtedly, you are very happy with it's accuracy. However, any barrel [HB or lighter] that will not consistently stay in the .2's at 50 is not going to win any matches, trust me! Here's an example of which I speak. Regards, Eagleye.
eagleye, you are probably talking benchrest matches, judging by your targets. Those are for puss...oops, those are very specialized matches for certain kind of people. 3p matches are real measure of a shooter, not his vallet. And that is where .5" @50 yards is decently good accuracy.
Almost got "foot in mouth" there, right?
I agree that 3P matches truly test a shooter, but you have to agree, a rifle that shoots tiny groups at 50 off the bench instills confidence for the 3P shooter. BTW, if I could average .5" @ 50 in a 3P match, I would be plenty pleased. I shoot a pretty mean prone target, and the kneeling is not bad at all, but when I have to stand, it loosens up considerably. Regards, Eagleye
The shooter's involved in benchrest shooting more than you know, from the sounds of it. I suggest you download a practice USBR or ARA target and try a few of them at 50 yards. And post your results, good or bad, if you have the guts. And be honest! It's not as easy as it may seem on the surface.
And be honest! It's not as easy as it may seem on the surface.
The shooter's involved in benchrest shooting more than you know, from the sounds of it. I suggest you download a practice USBR or ARA target and try a few of them at 50 yards. And post your results, good or bad, if you have the guts.
Thanks, Shorty!!
I find particularly challenging the 50 meter BR targets that you take one shot at each bull [25 shots in all] and then score for points and X count. The 2mm or so dot in the center must be completely gone to count the "X". Tough indeed. Regards, Eagleye.I agree benchrest competitions are tough, I will not be wasting my time shooting any of those targets. I simply do not enjoy shooting off the bench as much as standing. Do not forget benchrest was originally meant for people who for some reason cannot do 3p - mostly disabled and old, so they can also enjoy shooting sports. I am not trying to convince anybody about anything here, I am saying .5" @ 50 yards is good enough and obtainable from most decent heavy barrels, almost guaranteed. And this is not the case with thin barrels, some of them may deliver good accuracy while most will not. Most sporters shoot about 1.5"-2" @50 yards.
