HELP --- First time trying at "wildcatting"

jeffcarr88

jeffcarr88

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Hey CGN,

A friend and I have been talking about making "our own" cartridge by combining 2 of our favorite calibers together...that would be the .458 Lott and the .30-30Win.

I have NO idea if this is a stupid idea or not...or even if it is doable but the "plan" would be use the the .458 Lott as the case (obv) and neck it down for a lead cast .30-30 bullet. We would probably use BP over smokeless if possible? I think it is... and would use a single shot rifle and convert it to shoot this.

I understand it is probably pointless and might be a little costly but its more so a "lets see if we can do it" and a winter blues killer for when it gets cold out.

Soooo....basically I am asking if this is possible and if so where can you point me for some help on doing this.

THANKS!!!

- J
 
Of course it is doable.

Is it a good idea or not? Start by asking yourself what it is you'd like to accomplish, then see how well your proposal fits your requirement.

You're shooting cast lead bullets; how fast would you like to shoot them? Do you want 1200-fps soft bullets for lazy plinking, or do you want hard cast, possible gas-checked, bullets going as fast as you possibly can (say 1800-ish fps?)

With BP, you probably want more powder volume than a .30-30 case, but a 458 Lott is pretty huge; that only makes sense to me if you are trying to get every last possible bit of performance out of a BP cartridge shooting a .30 cal bullet -- is this what you are trying to do? (i.e. you might call it the BP equivalent of a .22-250?)

What kind of action are your thinking of using, and what kind of extractor does it have? Will you be able to comfortably make it work with the rimless .458 Lott case? Or would it be easier to use a rimmed case? (for example, neck a .45-70 case down to .30 cal?)

You'll want to figure out what bullet you want to use, and then choose a barrel accordingly. The things to consider carefully in your barrel selection are the twist rate (quick enough to stabilize your bullet, but no quicker or else you'll be stripping the bullet), and the rifling design (how it will deal with BP fouling and the lead bullet you'll be using).

Certainly sounds a fun project, even if it never makes it off of paper.
 
rnbra-shooter said:
Of course it is doable.

Is it a good idea or not? Start by asking yourself what it is you'd like to accomplish, then see how well your proposal fits your requirement.

You're shooting cast lead bullets; how fast would you like to shoot them? Do you want 1200-fps soft bullets for lazy plinking, or do you want hard cast, possible gas-checked, bullets going as fast as you possibly can (say 1800-ish fps?)

With BP, you probably want more powder volume than a .30-30 case, but a 458 Lott is pretty huge; that only makes sense to me if you are trying to get every last possible bit of performance out of a BP cartridge shooting a .30 cal bullet -- is this what you are trying to do? (i.e. you might call it the BP equivalent of a .22-250?)

What kind of action are your thinking of using, and what kind of extractor does it have? Will you be able to comfortably make it work with the rimless .458 Lott case? Or would it be easier to use a rimmed case? (for example, neck a .45-70 case down to .30 cal?)

You'll want to figure out what bullet you want to use, and then choose a barrel accordingly. The things to consider carefully in your barrel selection are the twist rate (quick enough to stabilize your bullet, but no quicker or else you'll be stripping the bullet), and the rifling design (how it will deal with BP fouling and the lead bullet you'll be using).

Certainly sounds a fun project, even if it never makes it off of paper.
Click to expand...


Thanks for the info...I am a TOTAL noob here but what I gather from your post is what if we were to do so we should use jacketed bullets and smokeless powder? I thought lead cast and BP would be cheaper to run...but I see your point in it giving it a "lack of performance" so to speak.

For the gun...I'd to use a falling block action...using a Ruger #1 possibly

The real purpose of this is to see if we can do it, and have a cool hybrid gun that a combo of two of our favorite calibers and to hunt (deer) with it.

...maybeeee sell it to the CGN crowd who after after bear defense? LOL
 
jeffcarr88 said:
Thanks for the info...I am a TOTAL noob here but what I gather from your post is what if we were to do so we should use jacketed bullets and smokeless powder? I thought lead cast and BP would be cheaper to run...but I see your point in it giving it a "lack of performance" so to speak.
Click to expand...

BP and cast bullets are cheaper. They're also more work (usually you have to make your own bullets, or you probably will want to, if you want really good result; you have to clean your rifle frequently; etc).

If you want high performance, then smokeless and jacketed bullets are definitely the way to go.

The combination you describe, a very large case with a .30 cal bore, would be a super-duper-magnum .30 cal. As a smokeless catridge loaded to its full potential, it is a fairly exotic specialty round - it would not be pleasant to fire out of a hunting-weight rifle. Not loaded to its potential would be a bit of a waste, you'd be better off choosing a case volume which when loaded to its potential is exactly what you want.

For the gun...I'd to use a falling block action...using a Ruger #1 possibly
Click to expand...

Nice action.

The real purpose of this is to see if we can do it, and have a cool hybrid gun that a combo of two of our favorite calibers and to hunt (deer) with it.

...maybeeee sell it to the CGN crowd who after after bear defense? LOL
Click to expand...

No matter what sort of wildcat combo you can think of, you can usually find that five different people have tried something similar..... not that that should stop you from dreaming up interesting ideas!

"Just to do it" is a perfectly good reason. Realize that you could easily spend $1000 on the tooling you'll need for the job and there's no way you could do it for less than $500 of tooling. To this add the cost of the barrel and the gunsmithing if you're not doing your own machining work.
 
My "silly" little goal for this is to make it kinda like the 500S&W is to the handgun world...a BIG boomer. I know I could go buy something big but that is not as fun to me and I think this will be a great learning experience. I have a love for big caliber guns and a dream to hunt Africa so I enjoy a good shoulder thumb time to time...as long as it will not be so over powered it will explode the gun in my face I am not too worried lol.

I fully expect it to cost but you only live once and I plan to give myself a time frame of about a year from when I start to when I'd like to be done.
 
In the BP world, a .30 is a pretty tiny bullet. In the smokeless world, a .30 cal bullet on top of a huge case of powder is a pretty big boomer (e.g. .30-378 Weatherby).

Call me a stick in the mud but I sorta hanker for a .416 Rigby (though it's already been invented so it doesn't fill your needs here)
 
I've read of 458wm necked down to 416. Gave 5300ftlbs at the muzzle with a 400gr bullet.

If this happens what shoulder would you use if used for smokeless? Are you going to change the length of the case or just neck it down?
 
Necking a belted magnum (or otherwise .458) case down to fit a .308 dia. bullet, then thinking it would be a good idea to run BP in it is all ass backwards and a pretty good indication that the two of you really need to sit down with some of the cartridge books, and educate yourselves about the how's and why's of what has already been done to death a dozen time or more.

If you want to run BP, you will be way better off running it in a straight or near straight sided case. Try it in the .458 case to start out.
Put a light bullet over a light charge of smokeless, if you want light loads.

'Course, if you just want to sink a bunch of time and money into a project that will be worth less than the sum of it's parts...

Cheers
Trev
 
Spend $1000+ dollars on a custom reamer, dies, and gunsmithing, to end up with a .300wm ballistic twin...:p
 
The Lott case is a belted magnum, based on the H&H case, like virtually all the belted magnums. Necking a 458 Lott to 30 caliber basically makes a 300 Weatherby.

It's far easier and cheaper to just buy a 300 (of whatever flavor you like) and a bag of corresponding brass than to take 458 Lott brass and neck it down to 30 caliber.

So, it's possible, but it's pretty effing stupid unless you like wasting time and money.
 
Start shooting cast BP loads out of a 45-70, you'll get hour of cheap fun shooting versus having a rifle that needs hand loads and doesn't out perform a 30-06. Option B is to simply shoot cast out of a 30-06, you won't lose much velocity for the much smaller case, but will have fouling issues.

JT.
 
IIRC the 458 Lott is just a 375 H&H necked up, so you would end up with a 300 H&H wouldn't you? or a 308 H&H? I love the idea of Wildcats, and have done it before, and am planning a new round again. The new one will be unique, and a barrel burner if loaded to capacity.

Whatever you guys try, read a lot, read some more, plan it carefully, read some more, enlist the help of a smith that is experienced with NEW wildcats, and HAVE FUN! I wish you guys luck and look forward to hearing about your new wildcat!
 
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