Help ID this pre-WWII Belgium 12 ga 2 3/4" hinge

john777

john777

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Hello,

I just picked this old timer up. I think it's really nice. Hinge is solid, everything feels SOLID! I like. Better than the used Winchester 2200 I picked up in terms of durability. I dunno... Being a first time shotgun owner, I don't have much opinion besides that this old timer is really cool!

Now the important stuff:

on the left of the number "22" it says JBW.

On the far right are the letters ELG inside a nice looking egg.

Thanks!

But the dealer doesn't have much info about it except that it's in great shape and the following description:

"12 gauge double barrel hammerless F & M shotgun (what does F & M mean? lol!). Made in Belgium pre WWII. Bores clean. 70% original bluing. Case hardened receiver..."

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Sorry I can't help identify it but it looks very nice. I load my turn of the century Husqvarna with 2.5in brass magtech shells and black powder. Sure makes heads turn when you fire it.
 
john777 - the following URL should offer insight to your sxs. Compare that to the proofmarks stamped on the bbl flats....the image in the thread isn't vivid enough.

Looks like a nice clean shotgun though.

http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_All_Proofmarks.html

john777 said:
Hello,

But the dealer doesn't have much info about it except that it's in great shape and the following description:

"12 gauge double barrel hammerless F & M shotgun (what does F & M mean? lol!).
Click to expand...

Quite likely the dealer was indicating choke types ....
 
Ahsan Ahmed said:
john777 - the following URL should offer insight to your sxs. Compare that to the proofmarks stamped on the bbl flats....the image in the thread isn't vivid enough.

Looks like a nice clean shotgun though.

http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_All_Proofmarks.html



Quite likely the dealer was indicating choke types ....
Click to expand...

Amazing link! Thank you sir!

I gotta compare when I get home. So far, I can date it to as early as 1924 (due to guage and chamber length 12-70). But now I have come to a realization that I need to ask a noob question. This never crossed my mind that post-1924 shotguns are okay with today's factory made shells, correct? Dealer never said it couldn't or warned me about using modern day shells. I have a crate of Winchester target shells waiting to be used soon. :)
 
If that sxs is proofed for smokeless then the stamp should also be on that bbl - you'd need to align that with the data on that website. Having said that, it would still be prudent to have the shotgun checked by a competent smith to determine overall "health" of the firearm and ensure compatibility for modern loads as those are loaded to high pressures today. It is very likely that 1oz loads should be fine but best to check prior to use.

You could always use Kent Gamebore 2 1/2in, 28gr shells (believe PSI is between 7,000 - 8,000 range).... expensive, however, a few boxes should last an entire season for birds :)
 
if you turn the 3rd picture upside down it looks just like the first symbol on that proof mark page.
 
Ive seen one very similar to that but it was a FEG from hungry. Very nice piece, sure it will find a place in your collection
 
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Hey all! Thanks for all the comments and help again!

I was able to ID lots with the link.

So, it's made in 1933 and was inpsected by lots of people. I identified 3 inspectors. K, O and W. K & O made sense to me b/c these inspectors started in 1930 and 1928. But W shows that the guy started in 1952!

I'm trying to figure out the trade mark. It's 6LD so it's either Dumoulin Lambert or Demarteau Jeanne. However, I don't know forsure, the number 6 in front of LD is a mystery to me.

It's has The Perron Proof and provisional proof of of barrels and black powder proof. So now I'm a little bit worried if this 1933 shotgun can handle my Winchester super target shells.

I was able to ID everything except for 184 and a group of symbols beneath it. 2nd pic is pretty clear. You'll see 184 and then below, a crown on its side with what looks like to be the letter D on its side and the number 3. Oh, and the front of barrel has T10 marked on it. Don't know what that means either.

This shotgun looks to be in amazing condition and never occured to me if it can or cannot handle modern shells. If anyone knows its safe, please make a suggestion. I'll be bringing it back to the dealer eventually to make sure.
 
Compare gun side by side with another that has a known 2 3/4" chamber, break action as well, use a factory 3 1/2" shell and see how far it enters compared with the known 2 3/4" chamber. Return 3 1/2" shell to a place where it won't accidentally be used in the old girl.
 
Re the F-M you asked about, that is the choke size - full and modified,
I see a lot of these guns and sometimes the full seems to extra full.
that is the "choke18.? and 19.?, I can't quite make them out.
the 12-"70" is shell lenght in mm - everything is metric.
As long as the champer is for 2 2/4", I think you would be fine with light target loads. I know old timers that used these things to shoot geese with heavey loads and never seen one blown up, But I would not try that.
and Never use two fingers on the two triggers:eek:
Also never use steel shot.
Marshall
 
It probably has tight forcing cones meant for paper hulls but it will be fine with light field loads using modern plastic crimped shells. I try to use low pressure loads with my old SxS.

Getting it checked out is prudent. Sometimes people do things that can make the gun unsafe, e.g. honing out a pitted bore might make the barrel wall thickness too little.
 
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