Help Identify These Shotguns ?

Nemos

Nemos

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Kamloops - Powell River
I picked these up at the local gun shop today. I am pretty sure they are Black Powder.





The first is a single shot bolt action 12ga . No words on it but Belgian proof marks . Serial number under barrel : J91655 . Serial number on bolt: 74212. Seems to be 1893 or newer ? I do not know what the "BM" or "18.1" marks mean. Also has " \ V ||| " Stamped in bother barrel and receiver by chisel marks.







Second is a single shot brake action 12ga. "Semi-hammerless" (trade- mark) on one side . Other side is very worn but I can just make out the end of " 88" of which I know to be a 1888 Pat date. Matching Serial Number : 9744 . I don't see any proof marks. Just what i think is a " S&S" on the under of the barrel, under the for grip.



Do you know what they are, how old they are ? Thanks Guys.
 
18.1 refers to the bore diameter in mm (.724 ") The IVIII mark is an assembly mark so that separated pieces could be returned to the correct gun. If the major parts were being case hardened, they were probably put in an iron box with several other guns (plus bone meal or charcoal or leather fragments) and have heating and soaking for the prescribed length of time, everything was dumped out into water

cheers mooncoon
 
I'm pretty sure the bolt gun is a converted French Gras rifle. There were a bunch of those flooding the market at the turn of the century, but no one could get the ammo, so they were converted to 12 gauge. Definitely a low-strength gun in terms of our current crop of ammo.
 
Green is right, I had a brain fart! The Gras was later than the Chassepot. The Chassepot was what the Japanese basically copied to create the Murata turn bolt rifle. Of course, almost everyone was copying the French in arms design then, they were the leaders in innovation! My how things change . . .
 
Chassepot was only manufactured from 1866 through to 1874, when it was supplanted by the similar but improved Gras.

A lot of these were surplused after the Lebel got into production in 1886/7, purchased in piles by the Trade in Liege and rebarreled mostly into 12-bores, generally with 2-inch or 2-1/2-inch chambers. They also are known to exist in 16 and 24-bore.

Absolutely NOT safe to fire with modern ammo!!!!!!!!

I have a Gras conversion on the way, will be shooting it with Black and a patched .690 Ball, take care of some of those small Dinosaurs in my back yard. GOTTA mow that lawn one of these days!

I am using the same loading (65 Black, patched .690 Ball) in chopped-down-to-2-inch plastics in my Zulu, which is actually a Tabatiere action: French copy (and not very well-done, either) of the Snider: precursor to both the Chassepot and the Gras.

Interesting that all three of the French rifles are VERY hard to find in original condition: the boys in Liege did too good of a job!

Too bad, but ALL of these are Antiques by date but not by Calibre. I'm just waiting for the RCMP to let me know where I can buy 12-gauge Black Powder 2-inch loads in this country. Gotta be just HEAPS of it out there, making up traffic obstructions on all the streetcorners, the way these old things are handled. Still, they are so VERY obviously ANCIENT that I have bought 3 in the last year-and-a-bit and, so far, nobody has asked to see my PAL. Good thing I actually HAVE one, ennit? They are now standing in the vault room, being eyed most enviously by the Reising and the FAL, both of whom are extremely jealous because these "old wrecks" get to go to the range..... and THEY DON'T. Guess that's what comes from having your very own 12.x class, guys!
 
The second one certainly looks somewhat like the Davenport line of single shot shotguns, or another New England gun manufacturer of this era.

Quote:
I am not aware of a Remington sxs with a side lever. Of course that could be lack of knowledge. I would love to see pictures of this gun.

Remington made the Model 1893 #3 which was a single shot. It had a top lever, with a cocking lever on the side.

To my limited knowledge the earliest sxs they produced was the 1873, but it did not have a side lever.
The 1873 was designed by Whitmore. They produced this "lifter" as models 1873, 1875, 1876, 1878 and 1879.

Starting with the Remington Hepburn in 1883 they produced a series of rifles with a side lever.

This is the Model 3, single shot.

Unquote

It could be a shotgun from the American Arms Company out of Boston.
Do an image search on this title maybe??
 
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