help identifying a couple of sporterized milsurps please

B

BeanKozi

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Hi All, thanks you in advance for any help you can give me. my girlfriend has inherited several rifles from her father. Most of them are out of my wheelhouse, including these 2.

I'd love to know more about what they are (can't find info on any of the proof marks), and an approximate value, as they will likely be sold... I doubt either one is worth much.

from what I've been able to find, the top rifle (in the first picture) is a M1917 (and may have never been a military rifle). it is Stamped "made in England" on the top rear of the action. it's in pretty rough shape overall, as you can see, but the bore looks good and action is smooth.

the bottom rifle is a P14, I believe, and is in pretty good shape. all numbers are matching (action, barrel, bolt) and the bore looks good.

I'll let the pictures do the rest of the talking.

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M1917 Enfield in 30-06 and Pattern 1914 Enfield in 303 Brit alright.P1914 seems to be in "uncut" condition with rear sight intact.
 
Top is an extensively sported M1917, the bottom is a basic sporterized P'14.
You're right, they aren't worth a lot. Perhaps $300 - $350 for the pair.
 
That top one says "made in England" because it is a sporter model done up by BSA from a surplus m1917. Because the floor plate tongue has been straightened, I would be guessing it was a higher grade Model D or Model E. Someone has worked over the stock extensively, or replaced the original.

For your P14 to be "all matching" - flip up that rear sight - there is a serial number on the top bar of that sight facing front when ladder is standing up; facing down when ladder folded down. I am not sure I see the asterisk mark on barrel or receiver, so likely the rear of the barrel face is flat - this would be an earlier version. Later versions had an extended left bolt lug and grooves cut into the barrel end to accommodate that longer lug. Probably the quintessential Canadian "moose gun", in its current configuration!

You might get $350 for the top one; maybe $200 for the bottom one. But, what do I know, and I do not like disagreeing with tiriaq!!!

Edit / Added - that 30-06 - something has been done with bolt handle - in pictures looks like rough filing, never polished along bolt handle? A dowel through the pistol grip - often a repair to a cracked stock? Some bedding material showing along chamber area of the receiver - a quality job or needs re-doing? Rust splotches visible on top of barrel and receiver - what is it like underneath the wood? Enough questions from pictures that I would shift my estimate for that one down into $200 range.
 
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Are you interested in selling the bottom one. I’ve been looking for a new project...and don’t have a p14, in 303.
Also just for interest....can anyone see, other then the stock, what has be modified from stock on the rifle. As I said , I don’t know much about p14’s. But have alway want to restore one for keeps.
Cheers
B
 
The P'14 could certainly be restored to the appearance of a service rifle. The barreled action looks very good.
You would need a stock, handguards, band, nosecap and their screws.
You would have to decide about which variation you wished to duplicate. Early, with long range sights on the side? Reworked with long range sights removed, as done at Weedon during WW2?
A nice stock will be the hard item to obtain.

The .30-06 is from a rifle rebuilt as a sporter by BSA. The rear bridge treatment is typical. Remington 700 bases would fit.
It needs a new stock, and something has to be done about that bolt handle - either refined finished shaping, or a replacement bbolt.
It would be an interesting project that would result in an attractive sporting rifle.
 
Restore the P-14, Liberty tree collecter in the US has P-14 stocks and handguards. they are a little ruff and oil-soaked but they have them.. Handguards are also available from Numrich of eBay.
 
Be aware, at least earlier this year, that when ordering the P14 hand guard part numbers from Numrich, what you receive is an m1917 hand guard. I contacted them - they checked their bins - even though differing part numbers on web site, what is in their bins are identical - both are m1917. If you do not know the difference, probably does not matter?? They will "fit" on both P14 and m1917...
 
Potashminer said:
Be aware, at least earlier this year, that when ordering the P14 hand guard part numbers from Numrich, what you receive is an m1917 hand guard. I contacted them - they checked their bins - even though differing part numbers on web site, what is in their bins are identical - both are m1917. If you do not know the difference, probably does not matter?? They will "fit" on both P14 and m1917...
Click to expand...

If you're unsporterizing, probably not a big deal, parts are tough to find. It's not original anymore anyway.


Grizz
 
Agreed - when "unsporterizing", it is no longer original. And it does not deserve to be priced as such, either. Still is not an "original", even if all "original" parts are found and used - it is still something rebuilt to look like an original. The difference appears to get lost sometimes.
 
Potashminer said:
Be aware, at least earlier this year, that when ordering the P14 hand guard part numbers from Numrich, what you receive is an m1917 hand guard. I contacted them - they checked their bins - even though differing part numbers on web site, what is in their bins are identical - both are m1917. If you do not know the difference, probably does not matter?? They will "fit" on both P14 and m1917...
Click to expand...

Pattern 14 handguard rivets are set closer to the ends of the handguards; other than that, there is no difference.
 
Pblatzz said:
Pattern 14 handguard rivets are set closer to the ends of the handguards; other than that, there is no difference.
Click to expand...

I can not tell the difference on the front hand guards, except for the markings, if any inside. The rivet placement is visible from 8 feet away, look on inside to see the rest of the difference - among other things, the metal liner is longer on the m1917. So, they will "fit" and will "work" on either, but that does not make them a "correct' replacement part.
 
All "correct" P14 and M1917 parts are getting harder to find. It's also correct to have M1917 stocks set on P14 rifles when they were refurbed for WWII use.
 
Thank you all for the useful information and your opinions... given its low value, great condition and cool factor, I'm thinking that I'll be keeping the P-14 for a winter project next year.
 
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