Help Identifying Rifles

Hi-Standard · Sep 29, 2008

mooncoon · Sep 29, 2008

I am pretty sure the falling block is a Westley Richards falling block. Unless I am mistaken, the caliber is one of the long british cases somewhat similar to the 45-120 Sharps. The gun is definitely not a maritini.

cheers mooncoon

green · Sep 29, 2008

Top rifle is an Alex Henry falliing block. Henry was a Scottish firearms manufacturer who developed this arm in the late 1860s. Some in 450 BP Express cal were used on sealing vessels in Newfoundland.

mooncoon · Sep 29, 2008

I stand corrected

cheers mooncoon

Steppenwolf · Sep 29, 2008

Not often you are in error sir, one can't remember everyone

mooncoon said:
I stand corrected

cheers mooncoon

mooncoon · Sep 30, 2008

Steppenwolf said:
Not often you are in error sir, one can't remember everyone

I couldn't find my copy of British Target Rifles (grumble grumble) and had to go from memory :>( a fading item for those of us who are chronologically challenged. :>)

cheers mooncoon

Steppenwolf · Sep 30, 2008

Hi-Standard,

Sorry to hear about your uncle. One of our sponsers has one Henry for sale.

ht tp://www.wolverinesupplies.com/default.asp?Pg=9&do=3&mcid=15&scid=42&pid=656

Cheers
Kevin

LawrenceN · Sep 30, 2008

Rifle #2 is a mod.68 Winchester .22. I have two for sale, but the similar one I have has the peep rear sight.

tiriaq · Sep 30, 2008

I believe that a Model 68 has the peep sight. With an open sight the rifle is a Model 67.

doubleman · Sep 30, 2008

Hi-Standard
Rifle #1 is an Alexander Henry Farquharson sealing gun it is probably a .450 3/1/4" but there is 9 different lengths of .450 the "EX" is for express which means it used a 270grn to 365grn bullet rather than the 400+grn bullet that was normal. Sealing guns are plain with little to no engraving a plain forend and fixed sights, there should also be a number stamped in the buttstock from the original sealing ship. The sealing guns are worth much less than a sporting rifle and are more common. I forgot to mention Alexander Henry is a Scotish gun maker and the Henry in Martini-Henry.

mooncoon · Sep 30, 2008

Steppenwolf said:
One of our sponsers has one Henry for sale.

ht tp://www.wolverinesupplies.com/default.asp?Pg=9&do=3&mcid=15&scid=42&pid=656

Even for a sporting rifle with engraving, that one seems expensive and considerably more than what sealing guns with the boat's name stamped in, have sold for in the recent past.

cheers mooncoon

Hi-Standard · Sep 30, 2008

doubleman said:
Hi-Standard
Rifle #1 is an Alexander Henry Farquharson sealing gun it is probably a .450 3/1/4" but there is 9 different lengths of .450 the "EX" is for express which means it used a 270grn to 365grn bullet rather than the 400+grn bullet that was normal. Sealing guns are plain with little to no engraving a plain forend and fixed sights, there should also be a number stamped in the buttstock from the original sealing ship. The sealing guns are worth much less than a sporting rifle and are more common. I forgot to mention Alexander Henry is a Scotish gun maker and the Henry in Martini-Henry.

You guys sure know your antiques. Is it safe to assume the .450 Express is a black powder round? And does this rifle not have to be registered? Any Idea of the age?

trevj · Sep 30, 2008

Definately a BP round. They would have made it very clear if it were a Nitro round (smokeless) both on the markings and on the proofmarks.

The Express rounds used a lighter bullet, and lots of BP to get the flatter trajectory that was wanted by some at the time.

Early day Magnums, eh!

Is it registered? Not to worry much if not, as there is still an amnesty in place, IIRC, and in any case, the CFC is glad to get anyone that has an unregistered firearm into the system.

I'd betcha a quarter that the sealing gun is old enough to not require a resistration at all, but have no real clue as to the exact age.

What're the plans for it? Gonna fix it, flog it off, or bury it in a closet?

It would make a nice project.

Cheers
Trev

WR1894 · Sep 30, 2008

doubleman, Alex Henry would roll over in his grave if he heard someone call his action a Farquharson. That action was out before the Farquharson and they had quite a legal battle over actions.
The top is the Alex Henry and will be a 450 BPE or 3 1/4, mine is only number under the forend and also has a name in the stock of a sealing ship. When you get the foresnd off I may have a date of manufacter
John

mooncoon · Sep 30, 2008

Alex Henry was in business from 1853 to 1911 altlhough he died in 1898. His business was purchased by Alex Martin presumably sometime after Henry's death. Henry's last patent was 1882. If you can find an address on the barrel, as long as it is not Frederick St, the gun is pre 1898. He was at 18 Fred st in 1895 and 22 Fred st in 1911.

As to caliber, you need to take a chamber cast and mike the dimensions of the shell from that. Parafin wax is probably the most readily available to you and the cheapest. Just plug the barrel with some paper towel, ahead of the chamber and pour in the wax and let it harden.

There are a number of .45 express shells plus some that are unique to specific companies and simply poking shells in to see what fits is not a valid method other than establishing what will not fit. Cartridges of the World publishes dimensions and history of the common ones, Handloaders Guide to Cartridge Conversion has a bigger list Either way the gun is almost certainly a black powder gun.

cheers mooncoon

doubleman · Sep 30, 2008

WR1894 said:
doubleman, Alex Henry would roll over in his grave if he heard someone call his action a Farquharson. That action was out before the Farquharson and they had quite a legal battle over actions.
The top is the Alex Henry and will be a 450 BPE or 3 1/4, mine is only number under the forend and also has a name in the stock of a sealing ship. When you get the foresnd off I may have a date of manufacter
John

John
I know the diference between them quite well yet 99% of the world groups them together and I did not feel the need to confuse him with useless information. I would not be to quick to assume that his rifle is .450 3 1/4" because my rifle is marked 450EX and is a 2 3/4". With your vast knowledge of Alexander Henry you should remember that he was well known for creating cartridges and loadings to fit the purpose of the rifle not conforming to the "standards" of the day.
Regards

WR1894 · Sep 30, 2008

Here are a couple of pictures of my Alex Henry

http://

http://

The name in the stock is from the sealing ship it was used on and in the information I have read Alex Henry used the 450 3 1/4 case in a lot of his guns but as mooncoon states a chamber cast is needed for sure. Even in the 450 3 1/4 if the gun is early enough it may have a chamber for the rolled cases which is different then the drawn brass case
By the factory records mine was made in 1874 and the serial number is on the bottom of the barrel 5648. The only other marks on the gun is one side of the action has Henry Patents
John

Hi-Standard · Sep 30, 2008

Thanks to all of you who have replied. I must make a decision as to the future of these rifles. The deceased son has indicated that he would like the firearms to remain in the family so I will post any further developments. And again, thanks to all. To those who have sent me PM's I will respond if there are changes. This forum never ceases to amaze me as to the wealth of knowledge at our grasp

Cheers, Don

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