help me read these targets

uchi

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a while back i loaded up 10 different loads from two different bullet weights. i bought a box of 165gr vmax's to try and the gun hates them, so rather than wasting them i loaded them again just for my own benefit and also did some sierra 180 gr bullets. i didnt do much case prep and that was my fault, i deburred some of the cases that had a lip but didnt chamfer any, which i now realize i should have done and ill get to that in a bit.

so the barrel was only 12 shots in from last time out so i didnt clean it i did however toss 4 foulers through it. so first were the 180 gr bullets, it was about 10 degrees out today and there were sections of light wind but i was pretty good about waiting for the grass at 100 yards to stop moving before taking my shots. the problem was i got half way to the range and realized i didnt bring my rear bag so i had to use some blocks of wood which i hate doing under the rear of the gun, i cant fully get behind it the way i like to which might explain some of the wild shots. anyways on to the 180 gr shots.

there eems to be some potential with what i shot here

target4.jpg


48.5gr group has two spots where it has touchers but theyre so far apart, im not sure if this is wind related or flinch or seating depth that was similar with two pairs or what, maybe just the luck of the draw?

50.5 wasnt too too bad and might be worth developing on but there were a couple strays in that group but the 3 look to be about 1 inch apart, approx, so i was thinking of developing from that and working towards 51.5 gr, seems like the 49.5 gr load was more scattered so i may try loading some 50.5-51.5 gr loads and going from there. is that the right direction of thinking for this?

next is the 165 gr loads i made up, i wasnt expecting much from the gun has proven it doesnt really like these much and prefers the heavier loads.

target3.jpg


48.5 seemed to be the only decent group in this mix, and upon closer inspection of it it seems to be better than i thought.

target1.jpg


also i reduced some of these to 3 shots after seeing how far they were spreading and decided to keep the remaining 2 from the batches for plinkers this weekend

anyways, the 48.5gr group doesnt seem bad, i put 5 in to that lot and im not sure if that hole contains 2 or 3 hits. i looked at it up close and wasnt able to tell. hopefully someone else can.

and now the surprising result from the begining of the day that i didnt see till the end.

i loaded some plinkers from the remaining 165gr vmax's i had just to burn them off, still cheaper to reload these than buying cheap factory ammo. these 4 i deburred and chamfered after having an issue with a bullet i made where it snagged the edge and after having run out issues. preping the cases like this made them 99% straighter while loaded so these were part of that batch.

again, 48.5 gr same as the other ones i had loaded that were the most successful for this bullet weight.

these were the first 4 shots of the day, while fouling the barrel i dont really take as much time to shoot as i do while shooting for the best groups, 3 were very tight, one went a little wild, likely a flinch. but this makes me wonder if i should try another box of the 165 gr or stick to the heavier bullets?

target2.jpg


it spits the 165's every where in every other load except for the very light loads.

hope this wasnt too confusing, any help is as always greatly appreciated.
 
For simplicity sake, why don't you load some more of the 48.5gr 165 gr combo using the same method you did for your last four shots and see what kind of result you get. You are also mentioning 165gr V-Max but your target says 168. Giving that Hornady doesn't make a 165gr or a 168gr V-Max I assume you are referring to 168gr A-Max?
 
yeah sorry its been a long weekend and an even worse begining to my week, brain is all rattled up, got the a max confused i load with the v max i was shooting from my axis today. turns out ive got 6 more of those little buggers, ill load some up and throw them down range on sunday and see what happens. i thought i was done with them but turns out i have more.

just double checked, 168gr a max is what i loaded
 
Get a sheet of bristol board, use black 1 inch square aiming marks (pick a corner of it and aim at that) Use one aiming mark in the center and crank the scope 5 minutes up and left, then shoot a group. Crank the scope 5 minutes right, shoot a group, 5 more minutes right, shoot another group. Crank down 5 minutes, shoot a group, down 5 more shoot a group. Left 5 shoot, left 5 more shoot a group. up 5 shoot, right 5 shoot (you should be back on center)

By doing this, you are set up on one aiming mark and are not moving the rifle for each group.
You also have 9 groups on one sheet to compare.

Now that you have found 48.5 gr to be the tightest groups, try going up .2 and down .2 gr and see if that is better. Then start playing with seating depths. You rifle might like some bullets to have very little jump. Other bullets might work best with more jump. If you go with SMK or Nolser J4 Competition Bullets the jump doesn't really matter, they will shoot just as good touching the lands as they do .040" off the lands, in most cases.
 
Go on Mystic Precisions web site and read up on load development and ladder testing, great read lots of info. I am just nearing completion of my load development this weekend I hope and what I have found is that 100 yards is to close, push out to 200 min and dont worry about your vertical plane so much as your horz. Once you have a round hitting in a straight horizontal line your getting close to the one. dont forget let the barrel cool down between the different loads, this might be why you had such a tight group with your fowlers and then everything opened up on you as your barrel heated up. I shoot 4 rounds of each load, walk the 200 meters slowly down and back, have a sip of coffee and a smoke shoot 4 more rounds. seems to keep the temp of the barrel low and consistant.
In the first pict the ones in the center 52.5 gr looks promising, in the second pict 51.5 looks promising. I am by FAR a pro I just research, talk , ask questions and try it. I am a newbie to reloading and thanks to all the great guys and sponsors on here I am really enjoying it and having some pretty good luck so far (knock knock).
 
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thanks guys, id let her cool off between groups and shoot another gun, i was also cautious of the wind this time out waiting for it to die off before shooting, i had some grass i was watching through the scope near the target and some reeds at the top of the berns that were indicating what was coming in over top. the weird thing about the lighter bullets is that i shot the 48.5 group at the very end of my day i started heavy and worked down so that was shot after almost 50 rounds down range with that gun.

the thing i found weird was that at 48.5 they were tight, at 49.5 they started to open right up and turned to complete crap from there. is that normal or should it have been more gradual than that?

ive got 6 more of those hornady bullets enough and should have enough powder to load them up for this weekend, ill see if i can reproduce the same results and if i can ill end up using those from now on. ill actually bring my rear bag this time too, im sure that shooting from the bipod and a block of range wood didnt help the situation much.

maynard, if i can reproduce these groups ill buy more of these bullets and try your method out and go from there and also see how they land at 200y. im still having a hard time finding the better bullets locally and any place i find them wants an arm and a leg for them, i guess its the price you pay.

on a side note, does anyone else find that this quickly turns from an hobby in to an obsession? at first i just enjoyed shooting a gun, then i wanted to get better at it and factory ammo was only so good, then the reloading started and now its gone from 1moa being ok to wanting to shoot sub moa with the hand loads and its all i can think about most times. think i need help? lol
 
also ive been to the mystic website, checked it out a while back, tons of great info in there i just need to find the time to sit down read it and make notes for myself from it, but the place has a lot of great and useless info for sure
 
Whats the particulars on your rifle? Are these for hunting or target shooting? If for target try berger or Lapua bullets. Its definitly and obsession LOL !!!!!
 
Remington 700 sps. Stock barrel so im not sure what the twoat is. 1:10 i think 30-06.

I think obsession is an understatement at this point. Lol
 
Ive got no idea whats going on. Ive got 60 shots fown the tube since cleaning the gun. The fowlers i shot hit in about a 3/4" group at 100. No idea what they were as theyre randonly loads that had run out. The 48.5gr group shot at best 2 inches. Barrel was cold when i shot them. Either i found the point where the barrel was too dirty to be accuratr or my scale isnt working right as these were all new loads. I double checl qll myy powder weights so im not sure. Guessing those previous shots my have bren flukes or the bore was too dirty to be accurate. Thinking bacl now that was likely the case as it started to spray the fowlers all over the place after that too
 
sorry for the broken english, i was typing on a touch screen phone and the autocorrect is not on and i dont know how to put it on.

i was thinking of the round count in the gun, shot 12 then the trigger stopped working due to dirt, fixed it, load development had 6 fowlers and 45 load development shots, then today i shot 4 and 3 were touching, and after that they shot all over the place there was zero consistency so im guessing the barrel is just too dirty to be accurate at this point, its getting cleaned, im all out of those light bullets so ill develop the 180 gr bullets around the tightest group i shot with them and if i cant find anything good i may just go get another box of those hornady bullets
 
better than what those shots are showing. ive shot much better groups on a regular basis with factory loads than some of those hand loads produced. i use a bi pod and rear bag so the gun is fairly stable and ive been getting consistent with my body position and breathing so ive been fairly accurate, getting good at reading the wind and waiting it out as well. i just need to develop a load that works.
 
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