Help!!! Need to cast harder bullets

JBD

JBD

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I tried the oven heating method for wheel weights one hour at 450 and another at 460 then dump them in cold water. When shooting they are leading the barrel. I tried 23 grains varget 150 grain 308 lee. Minumum load lee. That leaded and everything higher did as well. However I did make a plinking load of 5 grains clay which did not lead. (this I found strange as this load would have been a higher pressure then the light varget load) Actually it clean the leading from the other rounds.

Any ideas on what is wrong. I suspected that I removed my alloys when I was removing the clips. But when I did a bit of research it says that once they are alloyed it is pretty much impossible to separate. I also may not have done a great job fluxing. Anyway I don`t know what I am doing wrong.

Help is appreciated. I am still trying to find someone to test the hardness of my bullet.
 
What round is the 23gr of Varget load for? 308 Win?

How are you lubricating the bullets?
 
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yes it is 308. And I am using lee alox lube. I may have found one of my problems. You need to wait for the bullets. I`ve been heat treating and the relubing and shooting them the next day.
 
I don't heat treat and don't get any leading with the loads I use. You should be aiming for about 1700 fps, 2000 max with a gas check, but high velocity is not what cast bullets are all about. Alox works fine, and it's ok to use it after 24 hours of drying. Your leading isn't from high velocity with the loads you are using, so it could be insufficient lube, or an undersized bullet.

I'd stop using that Varget load. It's about half the starting load, and with powders that fast, half loads can be unpredictable (read unsafe), and will be at such low pressure that you'll get lots of unburnt powder. Why use 23.0 grs when 12.0 will work better?

Here's few to try:

Red Dot - 12.0 grs
Unique - 13.0 grs
2400 - 18.0 grs
H4198 - 24.0 grs

Your Clays load can be bumped up to the 12.0 range.
 
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The main cause of leading in cast bullets is, using bullets that are undersized....I use .310" in my .308 and get no leading......1 or 2 thou. over is more important than hardness!
 
ben hunchak said:
The main cause of leading in cast bullets is, using bullets that are undersized....I use .310" in my .308 and get no leading......1 or 2 thou. over is more important than hardness!
Click to expand...

I agree blow-by of the hot gasses upon inginition of the powder is the main cause of leading because it melts the lead on the sides of the projectile - only other thing besides insufficient powder charge, projectile hardness, insufficient or poor quality lube and/or undersized projectiles is a rough barrel that may have a bit of chatter or imperfections from the broaching process during manufacturing which will cause leading no matter what - to solve that many people choose to fire-lap their barrel to shoot hard cast.

However might I suggest, first check your barrel for any imperfections - if your GTG try oversized projectiles - if oversized projectiles is not an option - first I would increase my powder charge to the maximum safe level because if you get a higher ignition behind a non gas checked projectile the base of the projectile actually mushrooms a little creating a better seal thus stopping most of the hot gasses from escaping by the base which will help prevent the sides of the projectile from melting and thus reduce leading (too little of a charge is as much a problem as too much a charge in my experience) - if that doesn't work you might try a better lube - Beartooth bullets makes the best synthetic lube I know of.

Good luck
 
Very newbie mistake. What I thought was leading was not burnt Varget.

here are my 100 yard groups on my first batch
ati-1.jpg


If the bullets were disintegrating in the barrel they would not be able to group like that.

Are you sure about the clays it is very fast powder. I thought 5 grains would have me at around 30,000 PSI as it is in a 357 Magnum.
 
I tried varget it is was very inconsistent due to the very low pressures. Better choice is H4895 or better yet IMR SR4759.

Look up cowboy loads for the 30-30 and you can pretty much transfer them to the 308.

Faster pistol powders have been a mainstay of cast shooting. unique is a very popular one.

I used H335 which worked quite well. A bit of time with Benchmark but this, like Varget, thrives at elevated pressures.

Gas check is the way to go. I used them with air cooled Wheel weights and never had leading. Lee alox was my lube too.

Remember that the bullet has to get bumped to fit that bore. Big reason why pistol powders work so well. Peak pressure is fast and short so the bullet gets bumped up but not destroyed by sustained pressure/heat.

Usually 1 thou over bore size is adequate if using a gas check. I used a Lee 309 sizer.

Cast BR now have shooters grouping 1/2" and under at 100yds...YIKES.

Jerry
 
jasonburnsdundee said:
Very newbie mistake. What I thought was leading was not burnt Varget.

Are you sure about the clays it is very fast powder. I thought 5 grains would have me at around 30,000 PSI as it is in a 357 Magnum.
Click to expand...

Now you're on the right track. Use less of a faster powder. Clays is a very fast powder, but 5 grs in a 308 case gives a much lower pressure than 5 grs in the much smaller 357 case. The numbers I gave are mid-range for the 308.
 
My best load for the .308 is a 187gr. spitzer hard cast gas Check sized to .310 and 19.2 grains of 4759, I keep trying others, but always come back to that load. The top cast bullet groups(bench rest) fired from .308s are usually with fast burning rifle powders ie:4759,4227,Benchmark,3031,n133,n135,etc. These fill the case a little bit more than the fast burning pistol powders.
 
H110

I have a pound of h110 any suggestions on a loading. Also I am now thinking that I should buy a keg of something. I want to cast for my sks and 308 and it looks like they can share the same powder.

Would Alliant powder 2400 be a good choice?
 
You'll get 20 answers from 20 different people on what single powder to choose. ;) We all have our preferences, and many powders work well. You have several to choose from for the 308 and 7.62x39. Any of the pistol powders already mentionned in this thread can work well. If I had to choose a single powder, I'd choose Unique, but 2400 and SR4759 have also done me well. All are very popular powders for cast bullets, and have dozens of loads listed. H110 doesn't get much use outside of magnum pistol rounds, but would be fine - it falls in between 2400 and SR4759.

Unique is great for mid velocity loads (up to about 1500 fps), has very reliable igntion, and will go a very long way, as a typical load uses only 8-12 grains, as opposed to twice that for 2400 and SR4759. However those two are much better for faster loads, i.e. 1500-2000, where Unique will over-pressure before you get there.

I'd buy Unique, go as far as you can with it, then try the 2400 or SR4759.
 
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H 110 and win 296 would not be the best for this application. As stated above red dot, green dot, unique are goiod choices as is 3031, 4895, 4759.

44Bore
 
I moly coat cast bullets before lube

Hi, I molycoat cast bullets before lube, and have good success with them, I cast 500 gr wheelweight bullets, moly coat them then put a gas check on them and size them in a Lee sizing die. Then I use the Lee bullet lube. I shoot them at about 1860 fps out of my Mauser 45/70, it is nice and accurate, and it kills on both ends..
Allen
 
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