Help: shooting position.

[northern skies]

Today, I realized that I have not put much research into my basic body position while shooting. Specifically, prone from a bipod.

You see, my fundamentals came from learning prone a long time ago in the air cadets. The only change I have made is in my weak hand, it is tucked back under the hook in the A5's buttstock or on the rear bag, as is common with shooting from a rest. I try to have my weak-side elbow directly under the rifle, as pointed out by a more skilled shooter.

I never thought much of it until I watched a youtube video by the people behind "rifles only". They teach to keep the body directly behind and in line with the rifle (as opposed to the offset I was used to). I tried it today, noticing quite a few differences. My follow-through was better, and it felt more natural to preload the bipod. However, I noticed that my weak side shoulder and elbow felt "loose" and "sloppy", causing some horizontal movement in my sight picture/groups. Perhaps I was doing it wrong with regard to that. The groups themselves were otherwise good, the only other error being the trigger control error I am working on which causes a bit of diagonal stringing.

Now I am confused about how to position myself. It seems to be one of those cases of "the more you learn, the more you realize how little you know". Can some of you folks chime in about your body position, and the pros/cons of it?

 

[northern skies]

Here is the video I mentioned: http://www.youtube.com/user/Hidetraining#p/u/5/u8rkt1HRWdo

The techniques that they share are on the channels of "hidetraining" and "SHLowlight".

I noticed that opening up your hips/putting your heels on the ground made a big difference in the stability of this position. I just have to figure out what's up with that weak-side arm, if I am even going to shoot this way at all. I also noticed that I will have to move my scope back a notch or two.

 

[rimfiremac]

When prone from a bipod, the points of support are the bipod legs and the rear bag- everything else is ancillary- your shoulder falls behind for recoil and cheek weld support only- it doesn't matter what angle it happens to be at, though an oblique angle might be a little painful first try. Any other 'good ideas' you try to bring into the mix will degrade performance if the pressures applied to the stock cause the reticle to twitch on a dry fire. Practice dry firing at very small targets from different prone configurations and find one that consistently leaves the reticle in the same place after the sear breaks. Any pressures applied to the stock should be rearward into your shoulder only, any lateral pressures may cause canting driven by the initial dynamics of the rifle before the bullet leaves the barrel, leading to stringing. Practice finding a number of different prone configurations that are comfortable and effective as having just one will leave you at a disadvantage when you want to lob one at a moose 200 yards down the powerline and the only option is to snuggle in beside a marginally placed rock outcrop.

Remember rule number one: there are no rules.

 

[born2serve]

Rimfire pointed out very good points, and from my experience I'd like to point out a few things.
1. Start dry fire practice from difference positions (directly behind the gun or a little bit angle)
2. Dry fire by pulling the trigger or squeezing it. (pulling trigger works very well for me)
3. Whoever give you advice on how to shoot are all good advices and they may or may not work for you. Try everything and it's in you and you'll find it oneday. Practice is the best way to find it.

 

[zimbu]

My mental checklist goes like this.
1. Align the rifle with the target.
2. Align your body with the rifle.
3. If natural point of aim has not been achieved repeat step 1 and 2. No major muscles can be used to keep the rifle on target, as they will relax as the shot goes off. Only my left hand squeezing the rear bag controls aim.
4. Final check of wind conditions as I begin...
5. ...breathing control.
6. Trigger control.
7. Follow through. Ideally watch the trace to target.

I don't do it all correctly all of the time of course, but I don't get 1/4 min groups unless I consciously do all these steps.

Here's another vid I found informative. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9xeD-oVsyM

 

[Obtunded]

Zimbu is the only one to mention natural point of aim... EXTREMELY important. This is where the rifle wants to point itself without your input basically. To test this, put your rifle in the aim, close your eyes and keep them closed for a count of 20. Open them up and see where the rifle is actually pointed.

As to position behind or angled, I believe it does not matter. Many shooters advocate shooting from a position of in-line orientation, whereas others shoot extremely well from an angled position, such as is taught with iron sight shooting.

What is important is that it be comfortable, that it be consistent, and that you minimize the amount you need to be flapping about between shots. For this reason, I LOVE the use use of left-hand actions by right hand shooters... the dominant hand stays welded in position, whereas the non-dominant cycles and loads.

Follow through should be practiced. DO not flinch when you shoot, keep both eyes open, keep the trigger pulled to the rear. In essence, freeze your position at the instant the rifle fires.

 

[Longshot]

All the CF team Canada's I have been on try to get the shooter as directly behind the gun as possible.In our game managing the recoil during rapid fire strings is extremely important.If you are right handed we try to get your left leg as paralel to the barrel as possible.Then your right leg gets lifted/bent a little to give your diaphragm a little room to breathe as we are wearing kit and body armour too.
When I shoot precision/sniper I use the same body position.I can actually see my own swirl from 500m and beyond because my natural body alignment allows the recoiling rifle to land back on the target in time for me to pick it up.If when you fire a shot,have to realign your sights to the target,that's a pretty good indicator that your body alignment is incorrect.
For me my left leg is a paralel to the bore as possible.My left foot is actually pointing to the right and lays on the outside of the ankle.
My mound routine goes like this.
1.Get onto the mound and place all the equipment I need in the manner that is comfortable and easy to access.Make sure i'm looking at the correct target.
2.Get into position and test and adjust natural body position using closed eyes method.If missaligned adjust position from the ground up,meaning move yourself until properly aligned.Do not just shift the rifle using muscle.
3.Check sight settings for proper adjustment.
4.Make a basic wind call.May be dialed on or held off depending on preference.
5.Find the correct sight picture.
6.Last look at the wind.
7.Breathe correctly(natural respiratory pause)
8.Subconciously fire a perfect shot when sight picture is perfect.
9.Repeat as needed.

 

[catnthehatt]

Zimbu is the only one to mention natural point of aim... EXTREMELY important. This is where the rifle wants to point itself without your input basically. To test this, put your rifle in the aim, close your eyes and keep them closed for a count of 20. Open them up and see where the rifle is actually pointed.
.

Natural point of aim, automatic aligment as some have called it in the past, natural aim, (or whatever you want to call it), is vitally important to all aspoects of shooting , yet many shooters dismiss it as soon as they get on a set of BR bags, bipod, etc. or figure they can hold against natural aignment with their concsious body muscles
In fact, the body will move the gun where it is naturally aimed and return it ot where one's muscles are pointing it. that I don't think the time can be measered yet!

The best shooters in the World ( and many of us hack as well!) know about and use the system that
Obtunded has described!
Cat