HELP!, what is my 30-06 trying to tell me?

Ahhh getting there...

Well I think you guys are right, this rifle needs to be bedded. I think I will try that later on, but right now I'm just trying to get something that will group consistanly. I tried some 180's and with 56 grains of IMR 4350 I think that is the magic number. Damn things are going 2900 fps and the first 2 seems to like company. They are landing about 1/2 inch apart, sometimes touching. The third one likes to wander a bit. Always the same pattern as before, 2 together, 1 high right, but now the whole group is about 2 inches, with first and second right together. Thats's good enough for me right now to whack a whitetail, later I might try bedding it and see if that third shot can come down with the other 2. I would like to try bedding with a putty type epoxy, anyone try some brand out there that works well?
 
Devcon F Alumiinum is a two part epoxy putty. It is very good for bedding.

make sure you spray the action with some silicon mould release or wax it with floor wax.

Have you ever bedded a rifle before?
 
Nope, never bedded a gun before, but god hates a coward. I have used lots on epoxys before and done lots of fairing and glass/gel work, so it doesn't scare me. Also have a friend who's done a few. Doesn't look like rocket science, just a bit of common sence. The 77's lug looks like the biggest issue as it's angled, so it will be difficult to lock it in tight without actually glueing the thing into the stock!! I'll start small and just give the action a little support, I don't think it requires a huge wade of epoxy putty and the bottom of the gun, just a nice, smooth surface to help hold the action a bit. Lots of release agent on everything, including the bolts, and a bit of properly placed masking tape.
 
Try shooting a group through the Chrony. record the velocity of each shot. When you get your flier compare the velocity. Is there a sgnificant spread? If so one thing to try is different primers. Winchesters are reported to be fairly aggressive and perhaps you are seeing differences in ignition of the powder.
 
Before you bed the rifle:

- have a look at the fit of the barrel in the foreend, with screws loose, then tighten. Is it centred? Assuming there is enough material left after the dremel job...)
-if centred, install a cardboard shim (1/4 in X 1/2) lengthwise with the screws tight - see the Ruger site for very specific tightening instructions. Shim should give a light load to barrel - a couple of pounds - and be centred well under the barrel.

Go shoot the rifle - if the shim is properly installed I'd bet your groups halve, across the board. (If so, you owe me a poverty pack of beer!)
 
Update

We'll been a while since I could play, but bedded and 56g or imr 4350 with 180g bullets seems to be a good hunting load.
But I still want to get the 165's flying strainght, so I bought some imr 4064 and tried that.
49g, 2749 fps, 1.25" group
50g, 2820 fps, 1.5" group
51g, 2950 fps, 2" group
52g, 2990 fps ---BUT get this, the groups jumped 8" out to the right and higher. Right off the corner of the target, but the group was 1" !!
SOOooo, what does that mean? There still where not any pressure signs on the cases, except for what the chrony is saying. I even had another gentleman at the range, who looked like he just might have a bit more experience doing this, check the cases. He said they looked fine.
So might that crazy jump be a pressure sign?
I also tried some heavier loads with imr 4350, to see if I could speed the 165's up, but...
57g, 2880 fps, 3" group
57.5g, 2945 fps, 2" group, but bolt a little stiff the open, so I'm thinking that might be the limit of 4350
 
It's always good to bed a rifle. However, I'm not necessarily convinced that your problem is in the bedding. Some barrels are not properly heat treated and they warp slightly after they warm up. It's not at all unusual to see the point of impact change as the barrel heats. This can happen even with the best bedding job in the world and fantastic handloads.

Your 4064 loads sound pretty good. I once tried 52 grains of 4064 with a 165 grain bullet and got excellent accuracy and incredible velocity. It is a bit hot for "standard" (i.e., 1906-level) .30-06 loads, but it probably doesn't generate any more pressure than spec. loads in .270 or .300 Winchester Magnum, and I'd expect a modern action like a Ruger to be more than strong enough to handle it. Your velocity jump from 51 to 52 grains is about what you'd expect, though it is a bit less than your previous one-grain jumps. Nevertheless, 52 grains of 4064 is within current IMR "book" loads for a 165-grain bullet in .30-06, so if you find that it continues to give you the best accuracy, I'd stick with it.

I'd definitely try it again.
 
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Yup, she gets hot quick

ya, I'm convinced that the barrel heats up fast and changes it's POI. Today I tried some 55g 4350 with 165's and 50g 4064 165's. Both group about 1.25" but I couldn't see the first hole with one group, so I walked down to have a look. first hole was right on target, walked back and put the 2nd round right in the first hole, 3rd round wandered about 1". I think the cooling between shots 1 and 2 put then on top of each other. I'll try some faster 4064 loads later this week. THe jump in POI from 51 to 52 grains of 8" makes me think that it's the first sign of pressure getting high.
 
You mention "bedded" in your previous post - what did you do? Did you retain the forend pressure point? Bed ahead of the lug?
The 8 inch jump sounds like a scope issue, or the action creeping in the stock. If you still have a forend pressure point, the rifle would be more sensitive to temp. Finally, are you following Rugers instructions for action screw tightening - they are very specific. (Important for their three screw, split floorplate system - if I recall, the canted one gets tightened first..)
Regardless - Sounds like your getting close to ultimate performance of the rifle. Even properly bedded, the rifle will typically "tune" to one bullet weight over another, due to barrel harmonics.
 
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30.06

Very good feedback on this post, the only thing I thought I might mention is that I bed every gun before I start to find a load that works in gun, The powders I have used with the 30.06 H414,Imr 4350 and 4064 etc with good to so so results, using 168 Match bullets and Nosler 165gr BT which I find very accurate in a standard hunting gun like Rem 700.
Took a old Rem 700 that I had bought for my son in the late 70s that had not been shot for 25 years, he never hunted again after shooting a nice buck at 245 yards, sad for I enjoyed so much to hunt with him. He mentioned he might go hunting this Nov for deer, so I took gun and tryed loading with RL19 and the 168 match. I had read this load on site that a fellow used in the same gun Rem 700 BDL 22" a/10 twist
Used some once fired brass and necksized only the load the fellow used was 60.5gr, with Federal Gold Match primers, I started at 59 it was at 2595fps and shot similar what gun would do with other mentioned powders, but at 60.5 I fired 3 shot group at .321" I was stuned how tight, I then tryed a four shot group at 300 yards 4 with 168 and 4 with Nosler BT 165gr. I took time shooting to let barrel cool the first 3 shots with 168 where just over 1" guess I got a little excited after looking in spottingscope, and fired one out 3"inches
The BT shot quite well at three hundred as well, did not chrono this load of 60.5 but it is a compressed load maybe 2700+ fts. ?
hope this load might work for othershttp://
 
I have a Stevens 200 in .243 that was doing the same thing! I too was using IMR4350, tried different charges, bullets, bullet weights, all with the same results. First shoot was always high and to the right! So than I switched to H4350 tighten the group up nicly, went from 1 flyer(2-2.5" out of wack) and 2 good shots(~1.75"), to a 6 group shot @~1.5" @100yrds! My .308 seems to like the IMR4350 topped with 150 Hornady spbt! Just my .02!! Hope it helps!

Perry
 
Hehehe, now we're close...

Got back from the range after trying some more 165's with 52g of IMR 4064. I think this will work just fine. They hit a little high, higher then my 180's, but I'm getting under an inch at 2840fps. The hitting to the right has been corrected after finding the loose scope ring!! SO I think I've finally solved my first reloading issue... 56g of 4350 with 180's and 52g of 4064 with 165's. Now I have to find a program that will tell me the arcs of both rounds and the energys, to see how they compare. Thanks for all the help folks, it's been fun.
 
Update...

Just got back to the ol' 06 after letting it sit for a while. I was never happy with the IMR 4350 and 165g bullets, 180 where OK but the 165 just would not tighten up. Solved the problem with going to IMR 4064 and that's fine, but requires a max load to do it. I just tried some H4350 with 165's and damn if I didn't get a 1" group with 57.5g, the max being 59. Also gives 2825-2865 fps so that's plenty fast enough for me. Fun how the two powders are similar but still enough difference to be seen!! Can't remember where I first saw this tip, but it was somewhere on this site. Thanks whoever you are!!
 
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