Help with Enfield Jungle Carbine value?

bogusiii

bogusiii

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With milsurp prices going the way they’re going I’d like a price check on my No.5 Mk.1*Jungle Carbine (sorry I haven’t been keeping track of prices) and may have to download a few items to pay covid expenses.

See pics. 1944 dated, complete and all original (flash hider with lug, 800 metre sight, etc.). Matching, like new bore comes with period sling.
Any help most appreciated.





 
Enfield variants are surfacing from collections that were assembled decades ago. Recently I 've had the opportunity to examine 3 rare Long Branch No4's.....a CNo67, a light weight and this "Jungle Carbine". Shortly after after acquisition the Collector arranged for me to visit with the intention of examining the rifle. Here's what I observed;

Barrel - '44 marked on the right side of the knox form. 4 symetrical lighting cuts on the knox similar in size to the Britishicon No5. Barrel was lathe turned to meet the diameter of the flash hider. Flash hider appeared to be British. It also had a lathe turned finish and no markings. Finish was Long Branch bluing.

Bolt - Numbered to receiver.The bolt was identical to the forged Light Weight profile. Handle was swept forward and hole drilled in knob for ligthening. It was compared to a light weight bolt and was identical except the numbering.

Receiver - 1944 Long Branch marked. No evidence of serial number ever being removed from butt socket. Contact number stamped on sn location with rifle number. Right side below had the reinforcement block just behind the receiver milled off. Above the stock line there was a lighting cut at the rear lug similar however smaller than the British No5. Left side had the dish cut just ahaed of the safety identical to the Light Weight. The under side was more interesting......the draws and the flat section forward the draws was milled for weight reduction identical to the Light Weight. The receiver had be case hardened due to amount of material removed and was showing the "purplish" hue that you only get over time.

Stock - Jungle carbine profile in Canadianicon Long Branch walnut. The forend was one of a kind. Two lighting cuts in forend ...one long and one short...do not line up with standard No4 cuts. Receiver inletting was tight, no fillers. No evidence of a British rework. The tie plate was Long Branch. The machine cut was idectical to what we see on LB stocks...special tool needed for this. Butt similar to a Brit. No evidence of a rear swivel in fill...very unique. Pad metal housing was not marked, components were phosphated. Inspectors mark on wrist as shown in Cantom's pic's.

My advice to the Owner ....."contact the Canadian War Museum for a description of their JC including its serial number. Also any document that they may have"

Do any of our members have the serial number of Ottawa's JC?

These are my observations and intended to answer some of the questions put forth by folks.

Ron

Also, long time CGNer, Cantom had one back around 2006. He had some pics posted on Milsurp Knowledge site, where there are a couple of threads on these rifles.

Every pic of these has a 1944 date, which is telling in itself.

No one has any documentation on them from Long Branch.

Many say they were one offs, from the tool room.

Derek Snowdy, mentioned he saw a few crates at a location in Toronto. I checked out the address he gave me and they confirmed they did indeed have a crate of them at one time, a few years previously. They didn't realize that those rifles were something special and sold them off at regular prices for the time.

I asked them if they had any documentation as to where they came from. Dispersal rifles would have generated government forms, with serial numbers and quantity.

They didn't have any of that, they picked them up from an estate sale. I couldn't get anything else out of them.

OP, if you can locate some provenance for that rifle, it could be a very valuable piece of Canadian history.

The Canadian War Museum in Ottawa has an example of a Long Branch No5 MkI rifle. I don't know if it's on display or not.

It's sort of like the experimental Long Branch No4 MkI* rifles with the ''laminated" stocks. I had one of those very briefly, then sold it.

They're rare as hen's teeth and many people claim they never existed.

There are all sorts of comments about the scroll engraving and the font styles. I don't know, but I would think that the rifles made up in Canada would have used a mix of parts from the UK with Canadian parts, such as fore ends and flash hiders.

It's quite possible that the LB No5 rifles were hand stamped, instead of scroll stamped.

Very interesting piece indeed.

It also has the early fore stock, before they added the metal caps to stop them from splitting. Check the lightening cuts inside the fore end.

Those would be very difficult to duplicate if the the stock is indeed a LB stock.
 
Wow, you don't see that very often. Incredible collectors item. It is very like the laminates, in that many folks don't believe they exist, I was skeptical of the laminates (quantity, not existence) until a gentleman passed away locally who had 3 different laminate LB No4 rifles, AND a lightweight.
 
Lee Enfield said:
I'm disappointed that my post from this morning appears to have been deleted.

The rear sight in the picture appears to be a BSA No5 rear sight which has been overstamped with a fake Long Branch cartouche.

and as far as I know, the "real" LB No5 receiver is marked as a No4
Click to expand...


Not in the pics I've seen of these rifles, from some very reputable people

Non scroll marked/blank receivers used to be fairly easy to come by. I haven't seen one for a while now.

Mr Lever brought in a crate with 50 unmarked No4 receivers back in the late sixties. I remember unpacking them. There was some concern because there weren't any serial numbers on them. Each receiver was in an individual pressed paper box, wrapped in brown wax paper, with Long Branch info and a date, marked BLANK No4 MkI* on a sticker on the outside of the box.

The only reason I remember these details, from a small shipment, was because of how unusual it was to get this sort of thing from Dispersals, without serial number documentation.

I don't remember all of the details on the way bill. I do remember they sat on a shelf, in their original boxes for over a year, before they were sold off to Mr Elwood Epps.

I do know that Armorers had blank receivers on their shelves, without serial numbers, so they could replace damaged receivers, but to my knowledge, they were all scroll engraved with the manufacturer and model.
 
Yes, April Fool. The 'rifle' was made in the Long Branch Photoshop as recently as yesterday, or at least the doctored No.4 photos were. Happy April 1st!!
 
On to a non "April Fools" story, years back I had a chance to purchase a Long Branch jungle carbine for (catch this!) $500.! Alas, at that time, I didn't have $500. extra and it was a good chunk of change back then. As it was explained to me, Long Branch did 30 rifles as "trials" pieces. The serial numbers had the prefix "EX" before the numbers. Of the 30 made, 27 are believed to have been destroyed, one is in the Canadian War Museum, one may be in the British war museum or in the Tower armoury, and in 1987 I met the guy who had the one I missed. He said he paid $1200. for it back then. I can only imagine what one would be worth now if it ever came on the market.
 
bearhunter said:
...snip...
Non scroll marked/blank receivers used to be fairly easy to come by. I haven't seen one for a while now.

Mr Lever brought in a crate with 50 unmarked No4 receivers back in the late sixties. I remember unpacking them. There was some concern because there weren't any serial numbers on them. Each receiver was in an individual pressed paper box, wrapped in brown wax paper, with Long Branch info and a date, marked BLANK No4 MkI* on a sticker on the outside of the box.

The only reason I remember these details, from a small shipment, was because of how unusual it was to get this sort of thing from Dispersals, without serial number documentation.

I don't remember all of the details on the way bill. I do remember they sat on a shelf, in their original boxes for over a year, before they were sold off to Mr Elwood Epps.

I do know that Armorers had blank receivers on their shelves, without serial numbers, so they could replace damaged receivers, but to my knowledge, they were all scroll engraved with the manufacturer and model.
Click to expand...

1945 dated No4 receivers without serial numbers were very common - they show up as DCRA (.303 and 7.62) target rifles very regularily
 
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bearhunter said:
Not in the pics I've seen of these rifles, from some very reputable people
...snip...
Click to expand...

The Long Branch No5 rifle in the Canadian War Museum is marked:

BRAND NAME / MODELNo. 5 Mk.1 Prototype
INSCRIPTIONNo 4 MKI* over Long Branch over 1943
PATTERN NAMELee-Enfield
MATERIALSSteel, Rubber, Wood
MEASUREMENTSHeight 18.5 cm, Length 101.6 cm, Width 7.5 cm
 
Lee Enfield said:
The Long Branch No5 rifle in the Canadian War Museum is marked:

BRAND NAME / MODELNo. 5 Mk.1 Prototype
INSCRIPTIONNo 4 MKI* over Long Branch over 1943
PATTERN NAMELee-Enfield
MATERIALSSteel, Rubber, Wood
MEASUREMENTSHeight 18.5 cm, Length 101.6 cm, Width 7.5 cm
Click to expand...


Thanks for the information. Much appreciated.
 
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