Help with first precision rifle build!

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Spazmo

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Hey all!

I've been poking around anonymously through this forum, and I've ALWAYS had the itch for a precision rifle. Mainly I'm hoping to get into 3-gun competitions, as I've always been a fan of practical shooting. Bench rests are OK, but there's nothing like accurately hitting a target in less than perfect conditions.

As such, I'm looking for a rifle that can meet the following specs:
  • Magazine (internal/removable doesn't matter)
  • Upgradeable, but not necessary out of the box. From what I've seen, Savage seems the way to go on this. They are accurate out of the box, but don't require the (seemingly) necessary upgrades that the Rem 700 and such need.
  • Accurate (obviously)
  • Rugged -It has to be able to take a nick on it. I'm not talking about negligence, but if I have to treat it more careful than glassware ...

I know most rifles would meet these requirements, but the main issues I'm having are:

What caliber to get? I'm debating between .223 and .308. With the smaller caliber, I can go shooting all day and night, plus it is cheaper for the ammunition.

The larger caliber has more range (1000m vs 600m), and hitting power. I know that for hunting ranges (up to 200-300m depending on terrain), either would suffice, but .223 is good up to a coyote, whereas a .308 is good for almost anything in North America. I am not looking at hunting big game currently, but I know that when I bought my 9mm Beretta, I (unknowingly) limited myself to the Minor category. I'm not saying that I wouldn't get into it, as I currently hunt small game with a shotgun and .22LR.

The main uses of this rifle would be: 3-gun competitions, precision rifle competitions, and shooting outdoors on private/crown land. That isn't to say that I wouldn't go out for an afternoon of varmint shooting. I know that precision rifle comps can go up to 800m, which is really pushing a .223 to the limits.

Cost Currently I do not have reloading capabilities, but am getting into it now as well. I know that store bought ammo will severely limit my accuracy, but I'm hoping to remedy that soon. (Look for a similar post in the reloading section soon)

Currently I have my eye on the Savage 12FV. Stainless steel, I could seriously care less, so why not save the money. It seems to be getting very good reviews from people around here as well. I'm pretty sure that I'd go with this model, unless someone has input that would change my decision/bring to light new info about other firearms.

Mostly, it's a debate between .223 and .308.

Secondly, I'd need help with optics. Nightforce seems to be the popular decision for their quality vs cost. I know that there are different patterns and sizes for the reticule and objectives. Which seem to work best for most people? Also, which provide versatility for shooting at different/unknown ranges?

I'm looking around $2000 + $300 for everything for a day of shooting minus ammo costs. (If possible)

I was never one for brevity, rather completeness of information lol.

Thanks for the help!!!!
 
I agree .223 is cheaper but if your going to reload the 308 is not that bad.
If you buy ammo like federal gold medal or Black hills match your probably looking at 2000 bucks for 1000 rounds but if you reload it all you can get 1000 rounds for 1500 dollars. Thats with Lapua brass. Now you say well its only 500 dollar savings. True enough but they also boast you an get a minimum of 10 reloads out of the brass. Thats 10,000 rounds, after the first thousand rounds your cost to reload drops down to around 750 dollars per thousand vrs the 2000 dollars to buy each thousand rounds of factory match.

10,000 rounds of factor cost is 20,000 dollars
10,000 rounds of reloads cost is 8,250 dollars

Also you dont have to buy 1000 rounds either you can buy 100 rounds and reload those, I just wanted to show the huge savings in reloading.

So at those savings invest in good reloading equipment and a good rifle. Your a reloader you will save that money in the long run.

My .02

As far as a rifle goes spend the money, get yourself a good shooter with a good scope. 5000 dollars for a custom built rifle and 2000 bucks for a scope is really alot of money, however if you were to buy a Sako TRG or a Blaser rifle your loking upwards of that cost anyway. Of course if you want to save money buy a slightly cheaper scope or get a second hand one. Whatever you want to do make sure your happy with it. Your not going to be buying another one for quite some time.

If your going to hunt with it I would say go with a 308. There will be members who will say if you want a match rifle it wont suite your needs for hunting well I say BS. I hunt with my match rifle and it works absoulutely perfect. Its heavy but so am I and I can carry it all day. Besides every hunter has a story and it usually starts with "I was in my truck and ..." fill in story here.
 
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just a few thoughts...

if you are considering hunting anything other than varmints, go with the 308.

if you are thinking of getting the 12FV then plan on upgrading the stock, because the one it comes with is BRUTAL. I have a 12FVSS and the stock was the first thing to go

reloading is almost a necessity if you are planning on shooting frequently, and as a plus most rifle shooters find it very enjoyable, as well as it producing better ammo and saving you money in the long run.

by the time you decide on what you want for reloading you should have some boxes of empty factory brass, so you can load those up again and go shooting
 
you said "precision rifle build" and then want something that shoots out of the box.

If you want a for-sure-gonna-shoot-out-of-the-box, buy a Tikka Tactical in 308.

If you want to build and add-on, buy a Remington SPS Varmint or Tactical.
 
Everyone here seems to be saying go with the Tikka's. Is it because they are more accurate, is it quality, what is it?

Also, everyone seems to be going with upgraded stocks. Is it just an ergonomics thing, or a "I can change this so I am" thing? redlaker1, in what way was your stock "crap"?

Also, varmint vs tactical on the Tikkas? One has a picatinny rail?
 
the stock on my savage was just really low end, mind you I knew what I was getting. those stocks are just like the stock on the stevens... some kind of molded plastic, jagged molded checkering, rock hard rubber buttplate, and really flimsy forend.. and beside that it was just plain ugly and didnt fit me well.
I went with a new stock from bell and carlson, which is by no means high end, but a big improvement over the plastic savage stock that it came with.

savage does sell models with good quality stocks, they are just a little more pricey than the FV

I cant say anything about the tikkas because I havent shot one. but most reports I hear are good
 
Spazmo said:
As such, I'm looking for a rifle that can meet the following specs:
  • Upgradeable, but not necessary out of the box. From what I've seen, Savage seems the way to go on this. They are accurate out of the box, but don't require the (seemingly) necessary upgrades that the Rem 700 and such need.
Click to expand...


  • If you want "out of the box accuracy" pick one...it won't matter. 5/10 of either are going to shoot well out of the box, just depends which one of the 5's you get....the ones that shoot or the ones that don't.

    If you want something that you can take to competition winning potential and wring out every bit of accuracy possible, I would get a Remington, there IS a reason they are chosen more for precision builds and it isn't because they shoot well "out of the box".

    Ask Rick at ATRS how many Savage Take-Off barrels he has lying around.

    Just my $0.02

    My Take on the Tikka factory stocks:

    Tikka V and T Stocks are just the T3 Lite stock with extra stuff glued on.
    1798.gif


    Tikka Varmint is a T3 stock with a glued on cheekpiece and foregrip
    tikka_varmint.jpg


    Tikka Tactical has an adjustable cheekpiece rather than the glued on.
    T3_Tactical__accessories.jpg
 
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Also, I'm mainly looking for a shooter out of the box. I know I was ambiguous previously.

What would be the difference accuracy wise between a Tikka and a Savage? Would both be comparable, the difference in price being the stock?
 
Spaz, I have owned several Tikkas including two Tik-Tacs and they were superb shooters. Their actions are like butter and the rail was a great convenience. I actually really liked the stocks as well. It made the rifle light enough that it was not a burden to carry in the bush and its design was very comfortable.

So many people obsess about details that don't have anything to do with how accurately a rifle shoots, and the Tikka composite stock has been much maligned - mostly by peole that have never owned one, in fact I would say 100% by those who have never owned them. These guns are not perfect... they are more expensive than Remington and Savage and their throats are too long, meaning optimal seating depth with most heavy bullets makes them too long for the magazine. Accessories are few and far between for Tikka as well, but if you want the best of all worlds, build a custom.

I suggest the Tikka Tactical because you need nothing but a scope and a well-developed load to shoot bug holes all day.
 
Tikka has a MOA Guarantee....Savage does not. That right there should tell you which will shoot better OOTB.

My T3 Lite in .223 would hold the 10 ring on our 300m targets when I had it, and that was with a sporter barrel. Damn I miss that gun :(

If you are planning on upgrading trigger, stock, etc in the future then you would probably be best served by a Sav or Rem. as there are a plethora of choices out there for them whereas the Tikka has a limited number of addon items you can get for it.
 
Acuurate 223

You will be just over $2000 if you can get a good action.and .250" groups are common.
Order with 1/7 twist long throat, for 80 & 90gr bullets and you can go to 1000 with no problems and you can run against the .308 easly with no recoil and 45% cheeper to shoot. These hand lapped barrels are so easy to clean.
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Sako action,Hart, McMillan stock can't go wrong,
 
10FCP HS PRECISION .308 $929.95 (SINGLE SHOT???)
T3 HB VARMINT S/S- Syn any caliber $1,079.95
12LRPV SHORT ACTION .223 etc. $1,099.95 (SINGLE SHOT)
12F/TR PRECISION TARGET .308 $1,089.95 (SINGLE SHOT)
12BVSS & 112BVSS .223 $769.95

I personally like the look of all these and don't feel the need to upgrade anything on any of these except to add a magazine of some sort. I wouldn't bother with the more expensive tikkas as the extra $600 isn't worth what you're paying for.
 
Manitou210, you're saying that I can get a .223 out to 1000m and be running with the .308's? Would this require running really hot loads, which would lower my barrel life greatly? Also, would I have to custom build this myself, or does this come from someone? I haven't really built anything myself when it comes to firearms.

As for CyaN1de, I'm hoping to get something that I won't have to super duper upgrade to get it where it should be, as in it shouldn't be terrible out of the box. My budget is going to the gun/optics, and there will be little/nothing left over for immediate upgrades.
 
Yes a .223 will keep up with a .308 out to 1000 yards. However you do need a fast twist barrel (1:7" or 1:8") and bullets in the 75-80 grain range. Barrel life of a good quality match barrel would run 6000-7000 rounds.
Tikka T3's Varmint in .223 have 1:8" twist.
 
What's the availability of these bullets for reloading vs something in .308?

I know NADA when it comes to reloading.
 
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Spazmo said:
What's the availability of these bullets for reloading vs something in .308?

I know NADA when it comes to reloading.
Click to expand...

A quick look on WSS web page tells me you can get a 500 pack of 80gr SMK's for $150, or 75 gr A-Max bullets for $22/100. What they may have in stock might be a different story.
There are other dealer here that I am sure can get you whatever you need. Match bullets are not that hard to come by, but when you do find a bullet your rifle likes try to buy a bunch, they may vary from lot to lot.
 
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