hey all, I need some help to identify my supposed BSA P17...

Mr. Friendly

Mr. Friendly

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I bought it, it's in rough condition, but we've run into some identification problems. biggest being that we can't find any manufacture stamp, name, logo on it anywhere. my friend said it was a BSA, that's what he had it registered as, but (me being a noob n all) I can't find BSA on it anywhere. they registered it as an Enfield...just want to find out how I can tell if it's BSA or not.

the biggest and most noticeable feature stamped is the fact it's got BV BP NV stamped with a royal crown above each double letter combination on the barrel. including that, it's got another BV /w crown stamped on the receiver and just BV stamped on the bolt (which is dog legged with a round end). the only other tell tale marking on it is what seems to be two swords crossed (handles on the top with blades point down) with a B on either side. kinda like this: BXB.

they registered it as an Enfield with me...so I'm rightly confused. BSA for him but Enfield for me? oh, and yes, it has 30.06 stamped on the barrel.

edit - hmmm, I just found a site with the BV BP NV stampings in reference to BSA rifles.
www.rifleman.org.uk/BSA_Miniature_Rifles-General.htm

what should I do here then? contact the CFC and correct the mistake or just leave it as is?
 
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Sounds like a US M1917 Enfield with Birmingham commercial proof marks(BV etc). All firearms sold in Britain have to be proof fired and so marked by the Birmingham or London proof houses.
 
BP birmingham proof
BV High velocity
NV? diid you mean NP? That's Birmingham Nitro proof
the rifle was sold out of service, and if it was to be purchased on the civillian market in the U.K. it is required to be reproofed . even if some troopie had it on the range the week before .
Now those "crossed swords" are actualy lances and what you took for the handles are lance pennons. that is a proof mark placed there when the rifle was made.

If you look on top of the barrel just behind the rear sight you shiould see an ordnance bomb and a 1917-18 date below that which should tell you if the barrel is original.

Technicaly it IS an Enfield and that's what everyone calls them. since it was designed there. The only difference is it is a 30-06 instead of .303 with enough changes to make that work. Obviously no volley sights on the left hand side.

A point, both the Pattern 14 and the M1917 were made in the U.S. None were made in the U.K.

I get the feeling this was a HOME GUARD rifle shipped over in WW2. Issued to the home Guard because it was easy to supply them in Britain, while the Pattern 14 would have been issued to the regular Army since it used the standard British round.

I do have a M1917 issued to the RCAF, but that wouldn't have Birmingham proofs.
 
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thanks for your very informative post John! now another question. how would I find out just how old this rifle is? also, looking at the muzzle it looks like a pentagon...is that the way it was manufactured or is that due to wear from being used in the field and cleaned in a rush? either read or was told that you could tell if the soldier was right or left handed by the wear on the muzzle. ;)
 
OH Bugger! YOU HAVE a Pattern 14, NOT a M1917. Re-reading your post, the penny dropped when you said you couldn't find a maker's mark.

The M1917 is WELL marked on the reciever ring;
U.S.
MODEL OF 1917
EDDYSTONE (OR WINCHESTER.)
serial number

So you have a .303! and it could have gone over between 1915-1916

Sorry bout that. ;) and there won't be any date in that place on the barrel either.

If it went through the Weedon repair depot prior to WW2, it may have been re-stocked, or at least the dial plate stud for the volley sight (left side of forend)was ground at that time since they were obsolete and the pointer removed.

Would be nice to see a pic.
 
John Sukey said:
OH Bugger! YOU HAVE a Pattern 14, NOT a M1917. Re-reading your post, the penny dropped when you said you couldn't find a maker's mark.

The M1917 is WELL marked on the reciever ring;
U.S.
MODEL OF 1917
EDDYSTONE (OR WINCHESTER.)
serial number

So you have a .303! and it could have gone over between 1915-1916

Sorry bout that. ;) and there won't be any date in that place on the barrel either.

edit - added question here: on the buttplate it has a cap about the size of a loonie that can be pried open. under it is a hole (go figure, eh?)...I'm wondering if that's for one of those mercury tubes used to help absorb recoil or is it for something else?

If it went through the Weedon repair depot prior to WW2, it may have been re-stocked, or at least the dial plate stud for the volley sight (left side of forend)was ground at that time since they were obsolete and the pointer removed.

Would be nice to see a pic.
Click to expand...
I don't have a .303 John...it's got 30.06 stamped on the barrel/receiver and that's what my friend who's been shooting it for ages has been putting down it's pipe! ;)

that said, I didn't see M1917 stamped on it anywhere...I'll look some more later tho. :)
 
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I think, that he's not telling us that its been sporterised. Many of the pattern 17 rifles sporterised by BSA, had the logo ground off the front of the receiver and the sight ears as well. They then filled in the hole at the rear and rolled in the BSA crest. Any other marks on the rifle should be commercial proof marks.

bearnunter
 
Do you have a scope on the rifle? BSA put their trade mark on the rear receiver bridge on the filler they used to fill the void in the bridge. It would be hidden by a scope base if it is there.
 
1917 will have the month/year stamped on the top of the barrel near the muzzle. P14 will have the year stamped on the left side of the barrel where it meets the receiver.
If it's been sported and scrubbed by BSA there won't be much left for markings.
The "pentagon" crown is just the normal 5 groove Enfield rifling you are looking at.
 
I agree, a pic would have solved everything. So back to the initial post, then it would be a M1917, NOT a P17

Now one might want to also keep in mind that post war, Remington produced the same rifle as the Model 30 sporter, (without the rear sight ears) and they had enough parts left over from the production over run to do that until 1940
 
does it look like this?

standard.jpg
 
I just picked up what should be a bsa p14. looks a lot like the model b model but definatly 30-06 stamped in it. It is made in britian I will have to compare the proof marks to confirm exactly what it is. I was just going to post on this rifle so this is just in time
 
P-'14s commonly had the factory as a part of the serial. I have a P-'14 s/n W3xx, another with a W and 6 digits.

The British often changed or erased serials when rifles were sportered, put new serials on them and sold them as new rifles. It will definitely be a military action, as BSA did not build either the P-'14 or the P-'17, although they may have built some of the P-'13 experimentals in .276 calibre.

BSA did rebuild and sell a whack of 'Enfields' of this type, as sporters and, boy, can they ever shoot! Friend of mine has 3 of them, still hasn't got 500 invested, none shoot over a minute, although it does look funny to have a $75 rifle on the range with an $1800 scope on the thing.

Good rifles, very underrated. I don't think ANYONE is building a sporting action THAT solid any longer.

Have fun: that's what they're best for!
 
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