High end optics. Real world opinions.

After doing a lot of research and comparing most of the scopes you have on your list(all of them actually) I was down to the NF ATACR F1 4-16 and S&B PMII 3-20 Ultra Short. I'm a big fan of the ATACR F1 5-25, have one on a 338LM and it's been very impressive and stacks up well to the PMII 5-25. I think NF had a great idea with there 4-16 F1 ATACR but the lack of good MIL reticles was the deal breaker for me (I'm not a fan of the MIL-R) I ended up ordering the PMII 3-20 Ultra Short with a H2CMR reticle. If your a MOA guy it would be hard to beat a 4-16 F1 ATACR with a MOAR reticle.(IMO the MOAR reticle is one of the best MOA reticles I've seen)

The ATACR F1 5-25 scopes are not out yet, are you sure?
 
I have both Hensoldt and a couple Zeiss as well as Leopold. Love them all. You really can't go wrong with any of the high end optics. Once you have been bit by them, it is very hard to go back.
 
$1500 for a Bushnell, I feel queasy.

Why? Do you think one of those high end Elite Tactical is the same as a Banner? Have you ever looked through or used one? Just like Vortex, Leupold, or pretty much any other optics company, Bushnell makes everything from low end to high end scopes.
 
Why? Do you think one of those high end Elite Tactical is the same as a Banner? Have you ever looked through or used one? Just like Vortex, Leupold, or pretty much any other optics company, Bushnell makes everything from low end to high end scopes.

Actually, like Vortex Bushnell doesn't make anything. They find factories that can make it for them. Leupold make their own.
 
That's funny considering Frank from SnipersHide has been posting dozens of pics and vids of the Razor II being assembled and tested at the Madison, Wisconsin factory on both the site and the Facebook page. Pics starting with scope housing still in bare un-anodized aluminum and videos of them being assembled and tested after anodizing.

Both Vortex and Bushnell are building their high-end scopes themselves at factories in the US.

I would take either of those scopes over the 30 year old Mark 4 design in a heartbeat.
 
One thing i can tell you, if you get yourslelf a S&B scope, you wont be able to buy anything else and be fully satisfied, it is a very addictive game, i totally became addict of them, any rifle i like, get one... JP.

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And so on... JP.

Nice rig J.P. save me your brass lol
 
Yup, it bothers me when people want to run down a company and not do any research. These guys show 4 of the top 10 precision shooters in 2014 used Bushnell. Compare the prices of the scopes used by the other competitors.

http://precisionrifleblog.com/2014/10/24/best-tactical-scopes-what-the-pros-use/

The trend from 2012 to 2014 is showing that Vortex and Bushnell are gaining ground. S&B will always be king in most peoples eyes, no matter how well the others do.
 
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I would take either of those scopes over the 30 year old Mark 4 design in a heartbeat.

We don't agree on everything but kombayotch and I are together on this one. A thousand years ago ( well, OK, the 1980's ) when I was taking the Queen's Shilling the Leupold was as good as it got. I think they simply rested on their achievements as the product today seems little improved from what I remember - still a good scope but surpassed by SIghtron, Vortex, Bushnell and totally eclipsed by Nightforce and S+B etc.
 
I picked up a DMR 3.5-21 yesterday and I'm rather impressed with it initially. Having not shot with it yet I can't comment fully but the glass is excellent and may compare nicely with my NXS 8-32. The turrets leave a little to be desired when compared to NXS turrets but that's setting the bar pretty high. Comparing to a newer Elite Tactical 10x40 they feel like the same turret but with less resistance due to the much larger knob. I'll see how it stacks up against NF this year and I feel it will do quite well for itself.

The new Bushnell scopes are not like the scope on your grandpa's hunting rifle. I have a Bushnell XRS Tactical Elite 4.5-30x50 G2DMR reticle and its a very nice scope. It has some nicer features than my Nightforce NXS 8-32x56 which is a very nice scope as well. Both have excellent turrets but the first focal plane on the XRS is a nice feature. There are good reviews on both scopes. The Bushnell XRS is about $2600 and the Nightforce NXS about $2300.
 
That's funny considering Frank from SnipersHide has been posting dozens of pics and vids of the Razor II being assembled and tested at the Madison, Wisconsin factory on both the site and the Facebook page. Pics starting with scope housing still in bare un-anodized aluminum and videos of them being assembled and tested after anodizing.

Both Vortex and Bushnell are building their high-end scopes themselves at factories in the US.

I would take either of those scopes over the 30 year old Mark 4 design in a heartbeat.

Ah. Sorry, thanks for the news, obviously I was out of date.

I did not mean to imply that getting stuff made for them meant none of it was any good. I've had some Bushnell equipment I am well-pleased with at the price and it's not even their top of the line. E.g. an old Banner Lite Site 4x made for them by Bausch&Lomb. I haven't tried anything by Vortex but never doubted the reports of owners that what they had was good.

It costs more to make the better stuff whether you do it yourself or contract it out. And if you don't care to make sure it's done right, the product can be crap whether you make it yourself or contract it out.
 
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