Hodgdon Low Recoil with slow powders

hunters home said:
Post 13 is not incorrect. I said Hodgdon is using reduced loads with slow burning powder that is quite a bit below starting loads. On the Hodgdon web site the starting load for IMR 7828 ( which is a slow burning powder) with a 150 bullet is 75 grs in a 300 Win mag where as their reduced load is 60.2 grs. If you don't consider that quite a bit below starting, I do.
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Dude, quit while you're ahead lol
I was as clear and concise as I could possibly be, referencing the 30-06 loads (while you reference loads in general, not specifically the 300 WM, and then refer to the 300 WM as if it's the only one we're talking about), and you still couldn't give a straight answer. Look back at what you wrote.

It's probably a safe bet that I know more regarding reloading than yourself, so please stop with your weird version of mansplaining.:LOL:
 
I don't know your history of reloading but judging by your post you must have just started. You mentioned needing a coffey have two and put something in it for good measure. You need it
 
Like I posted, very intelligent post. When you don't have enough gray matter to discuss the subject at hand then turn to insults. Oh and by the way gray matter is brains.
 
It sounds like this thread is past the point of simply answering the question, but I have the time....

Define "Low Recoil".

Any time you reduce the bullet weight and/or the weight of the powder charge, you'll reduce recoil, all other things being equal. Any time you reduce the Muzzle Velocity (MV), you'll reduce recoil by a factor that includes the square of MV.

You'll get less recoil with loads having the same MV using a few grains of Red Dot than with a compressed case of US869, but recoil will still be reduced over a case full of for example H4895 which will have a higher MV.
 
@andy.
I've never used reduced loads of slow powder because in my 40 yrs of loading I was led to believe that loads of slow burning powder reduced below the starting load was unsafe. I'm sure you must have heard or read of this also. What I was wondering was what led Hodgdon to change their way of thinking concerning this. The reduced loads I've used were with 4198 which worked good. I also tried the 60% H4895 loads which also worked good. JME
 
My speculation is that, following in the footsteps of H4895's 60% legacy, Hodgdon tested other powders below the "customary" load floor, and found a few to be stable and safe to the levels that they've published.
That said, they exposed their buttocks to that degree, and it now behooves us to cover ours to same...
 
I agree. But I still don't feel good about using some of their reduced loads. I got in touch with them (post#9) and was told to use the exact load published. They never stated their reason for the change of thinking. Like you posted must have done more testing.
 
hunters home said:
@andy.
I've never used reduced loads of slow powder because in my 40 yrs of loading I was led to believe that loads of slow burning powder reduced below the starting load was unsafe. I'm sure you must have heard or read of this also. What I was wondering was what led Hodgdon to change their way of thinking concerning this. The reduced loads I've used were with 4198 which worked good. I also tried the 60% H4895 loads which also worked good. JME
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I now see that the suggestion was slow powders below starting loads. To clarify, I mean full cases of powders that are slower than what is "optimal" in that cartridge - not partial fills. The danger that is reported is suspected to be "flashover", which can't occur with full or near full cases.

For example: a full case of US869 in the 30-06 produces about 2400 fps with a 150 gr bullet, well below what can be achieved with less of a faster powder. You won't find Hodgdon publishing loads using US869 in the 30-06, not because using it is not safe, but because it's not "optimal" for the 30-06. I've also used a full case of BLC-(2) in the 45-70 and 500 S&W with similarly low MV's and very good accuracy.

Now just because you can do that doesn't mean it makes sense, particularly since powder is expensive, which is why I use only pistol powders and cast bullet loads for reduced loads. I happened to have a lot of US869 and tried it in a lot of cartridges (even 223, where 26.0 grs of US869 over a 55 gr bullet gave 1550 fps) for sh*ts and giggles, but in the US where there is often a lot of very slow surplus powder available, full cases of very slow powders are commonly used with cast bullets, often with magnum primers and a few grains of pistol powder loaded at the primer under the slower powder - but that's for another thread.
 
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Using slow "surplus" powders, when they were still available at fire sale prices from Higginson's, to load low pressure ammunition was quite a common practice among those of us who utilized those propellants.

Today, the price of all components has gone through the roof, and there are few if any surplus powders offered by anyone in Canada. I don't know if they're still being offered for sale in the US.

I've loaded thousands of rounds with such powders for all sorts of purposes. When the practice of farmers/ranchers was still legal for them to sell animals they would slaughter and process for clients was in full swing, I used to load 30-30 cartridges for one rancher, with 150 grain flat nose bullets and a full case of a surplus powder similar to H1000 but a bit slower. It wasn't compressed and it used a "standard large rifle primer, and velocity was around 1600fps over a Chrony about ten feet in front of the muzzle. It was exactly what he wanted for a fast kill on a steer/cow forehead about a foot from the muzzle.

I used a lot of that powder, to teach smaller shooters to become comfortable with the muzzle noise and lighter recoil.

I haven't seen anything like it available for over a decade.

It's a good way to practice for those who are recoil shy, using the rifle they're going to hunt with, as long as they don't skip practicing with full blown hunting loads.
 
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So I loaded a few rounds using the load suggested by Hodgdon for 150gn 30-06 with 56.5gn of 4831sc that did 2490fps in there barrel, I used Speer hot-cor bullets sat them at the same coal as the book, my velocity was a bit higher with a shorter barrel out of my m77mkII 22” barrel.
Accuracy was alright at just under 2” @ 100m 2 3 shots group!
The recoil was mild of course!
 
DGY said:
So I loaded a few rounds using the load suggested by Hodgdon for 150gn 30-06 with 56.5gn of 4831sc that did 2490fps in there barrel, I used Speer hot-cor bullets sat them at the same coal as the book, my velocity was a bit higher with a shorter barrel out of my m77mkII 22” barrel.
Accuracy was alright at just under 2” @ 100m 2 3 shots group!
The recoil was mild of course!
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Did you notice any other differences? How was the muzzle blast compared to standard loads?
 
DGY said:
So I loaded a few rounds using the load suggested by Hodgdon for 150gn 30-06 with 56.5gn of 4831sc that did 2490fps in there barrel, I used Speer hot-cor bullets sat them at the same coal as the book, my velocity was a bit higher with a shorter barrel out of my m77mkII 22” barrel.
Accuracy was alright at just under 2” @ 100m 2 3 shots group!
The recoil was mild of course!
Click to expand...

It's strange (but not for Hodgdon) that they'd list that as a "Max Load", when it's listed at 35K psi, and yet the Max Load for a 180 gr bullet is 59.8 grs, listed as "compressed".

I wouldn't lower the 56.5 gr load much or you'll risk being at pressures where 4831Sc won't ignite reliably, but I'd be comfortable going up to a full case and then 0.5 grs more (slightly compressed - likely about 61.0 grs) in search of a more accurate load.

Of course recoil would increase, but only accurate loads are useful, regardless of recoil.
 
umm, im loading 40grains, up from 38 grains, of VARGET with a 150gr SP in the .308win----- from all ive read this shouldnt be happening--- but if you look at other cartridges , like the 303 brit..... for those "older guns"..... its a recipe....

so i figured surely itl work in the 308

result was 2400fps and some mild very nice, recoil, accurate load in the Franchi wit the 150 Speers.

fyi, 2c, no point at all... have a good one
 
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