Honest info on levers

powdergun

powdergun

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I have never owned a lever action or hunted with one. I've always used bolt actions. The type of hunting I do can and often does require a 200+ yrd shot. From what I have heard read levers should not really be used much further than this. The calibres I am considering are .444 or 45-70. and I like the look of Marlins.

So the question is : Are these rifles capable of hitting a 10" circle at 200 yds from a cold barrel consistently? I know that " It depends on the shooter " will be said but lets just assume the gun is in the hands of the worlds greatest rifleman at the range on a sandbag.:D

Thanks in advance fo the info
 
I have a Savage 99c 308 that will do a lot better than that and it has a clip mag so is a lot faster to load. Found one this year and am deeply in love. And it handles nicer than the Winnie.
 
The reason they are not recommended beyond 200 yds. is not usually due to accuracy concerns as the guns are very accurate and the cartridge has been used out to past 1200yds. The problem is when used in the field the drop is steep past around 200yds. and unless you have a range finder or are an expert at estimating, you can miss or wound due to holdover. Using the Gould hollowpoint for an example: at 1800fps and it is dead on at 100yds it will drop 14" at 200yds and 47" at 300yds., range estimating is critical!!! In target shooting, at known distances, with the excellent tang sights avail. the 45/70 can be deadly out a long way.
 
lever actions are much better suited as fast handling brush guns.
there are some small problems with traditional lever actions that, when combined, make accuracy at long ranges a challenge:

-at longer range the older calibres like 45-70 fall way behind something like a .30-06 ballistically... as detailed in ben's post above (generally, handloaders plz dont derail this into an 'is a 45-70 a long range caliber' thread)
-the traditional straight-gripped 2-piece wooden stock is a long way from something like an aluminum bedding blocked, barrel free-floating HSPrecision stock
-if you mount a scope, the drop at comb/drop at heel are often quite steep so its impossible to get a good cheek weld (maybe use a very low-mounted scope with a small objective, and/or some sortof add-on adjustable comb, which will look like @ss on a lever)

im sure theres more, but those three combined make for quite a challenge. IMO if you want something with the specific intention of making 200+ yard shots, get a modern bolt gun designed for it. again i am sure it is possible to get 200+ yard accuracy with a levergun, but why not just use a levergun for what its best at, and get something designed for longer range shots for those 200+ yard shots? the right tool for the job.
 
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I use nothing but vintage, iron-sighted old Winchesters. If the bore is half decent, you can easily shoot 5-shot groups at 200 yards that are 6" or less with just about any levergun caliber, provided you know how to shoot with iron sights and what elevation to set your rear sight to. The problem, as already pointed out, is that once you get past 200 yards, the bullet is dropping pretty rapidly. You are going to have to purchase a rangefinder and memorize your ballistics tables (the real ones that your gun shoots). If you are shooting at a range, you will be good to at least 1,000 yards with a 45-70 and the right load. However, for hunting, I limit it to 200 yards simply because I do not have a range finder, and I'm iffy on the ballistics tables further than that.
 
Just install a Williams Aperture/peep sight (or the other brand) on the back of your 94, and practice your ass off at the range. :)
 
peep sights have their own issues when hunting in less-than-ideal lighting (ie: not full daylight, in a forest, etc) on low-contrast targets, and long-distance your accuracy is directly limited by how fine the front sight is. you could practice for months at the range but unless you are hunting black deer on a field of snow in broad daylight you are at a disadvantage compared to a scope, i think :)
i personally find it very difficult to get peep sights on something low-contrast like a deer at the edge of a forest in fading daylight. maybe its just me, still id recommend a scope.

if you do get a lever, IMO get a modern gun in a modern caliber (like a Browning BLR in .308) and mount a quality scope as low as you possibly can on it - even if it means getting something with as small as a 33mm objective (try the 33mm Leupold scopes).
examine mounting solutions and see what type of base/ring combo you can get that will allow it to mount lowest. compare rings (for example my Low Leupold QRW rings are significantly taller than my Low Burris Zee rings).
this will pretty much solve most of the long-range 'downsides' of a lever action.

ive seen people put some really dumb scopes on levers like a 50mm objective on extra high rings, and their chin doesnt even touch the stock, hehe.
 
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i use a savage 99-c .that i inherited never had any use for one before strictly a bolt guy, the old bull that bolts are better in every way, after useing the 99-c for two seasons i have a new respect for the levers old or new,on targets and on game, give one a try,,wade
 
the savage 99 is an exception in that it can be made in modern calibers, so it doesnt suffer from the ballistic issues. many even came with monte-carlo stocks to be more suited for scope mounting.
its an amazing gun, with some truly revolutionary features for its time, i honestly cant believe they discontinued it.
 
manbearpig said:
peep sights have their own issues when hunting in less-than-ideal lighting (ie: not full daylight, in a forest, etc) on low-contrast targets, and long-distance your accuracy is directly limited by how fine the front sight is. you could practice for months at the range but unless you are hunting black deer on a field of snow in broad daylight you are at a disadvantage compared to a scope, i think :)
i personally find it very difficult to get peep sights on something low-contrast like a deer at the edge of a forest in fading daylight. maybe its just me, still id recommend a scope.
A peep sight (thick rim and small aperture) is difficult to use in the field, where as a ghost ring (thin rim large aperture) is less so. Big game is well - big, and not difficult to see under 200 yards. Now and then I shoot rifles fitted with ghost rings, and I much prefer a rectangular post front sight to a thin tapered front sight. Those of us who have been brought up on such a system seem to get along quite well. A fine front sight is slower, and if topped with a bead is much more difficult to use accurately. Sharp edges and a flat top seems easier to focus on. The front sight on my hunting rifle is brass and provides good contrast on any color of background. While the light gathering abilities of modern scopes cannot be discounted, good shooting can be accomplished under difficult field conditions with ghost ring and post equipped rifles.
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when he said 'peep sight' i automatically assumed he meant something like the parker hale or lyman tang sight or receiver aperture sight.
different from the 'ghost ring' style:
rifle-gr-top.jpg


ghost rings like that are awesome, but id still take a scope over those for 200+ yards.
 
I have a 450 Marlin in a marlin guide that will put 5 shots in 1.25 when scoped. Definately a 225 yard set up with the 325 Hornady pointed bullets.

As said earler a Savage 99 or BLR from browning suffer not at all. The Browning in a 270WSM or 300WSM or the Savage in the 7mm-08 or 284 would reach to 300+
 
I shoot a .444 marlin that will keep 3 rounds in 2" at 100 yards . I prefer to get close before I squeeze the trigger but I have taken a couple deer at 120 yards and 150 yards. I think with a little practice long shots with levers are quite possible.
 
All my old pre1910 - 1894 winchester rifles shoot well out to 200 yards. I would not exceed that distance due to the forementioned ballistics. As a bush gun, you could not ask for better. I have shot a bolt for "too" many years and now am a firm believer in accuracy rather than distance. No matter how the game is hit( excluding a spine shot or head shot) they do travel a short distance.
 
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